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Enigma
post Jan 2 2008, 09:41 AM
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Hi,

I am sorry to go a bit off Shadowrun, but it may be of use in Shadowrun so that's my thin, thin relevance to the game.

Anyway, I have seen the Ghost in the Shell movie. That is all. I know that there are other Ghost in the Shell things around, like a TV series, but I know not of them. Could someone who knows about this please answer me the following - assuming I am interested in movies and TV shows and not interested in reading actual manga/books in English or Japanese, what else is there around apart from the GITS movie? Also, is any of it any good at all?
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Crusher Bob
post Jan 2 2008, 09:51 AM
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The 1st GiTS and the 2nd GiTS: Innocence

There are also the tv series GiTS: Stand Alone Complex (SAC) with two seasons, referred to as 1st gig and 2nd gig.

There's also a movie based on the TV series: Solid State Society.
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Enigma
post Jan 2 2008, 09:59 AM
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Thanks very much - your help is appreciated.

I know this is a loaded question and all, but are any of the things you mentioned any good, entertainment wise?
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Crusher Bob
post Jan 2 2008, 10:04 AM
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Depends on your taste, I guess. Innocence might be described as 'selected reading from philosophy textbooks with audiovisual accompanyment'. The TV show is much more accessible, even more so than the first movie
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Stahlseele
post Jan 2 2008, 10:09 AM
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and don't forget the little parts about the tachikoma on the end of every episode . . i'm a man and i still find that cute *g*
let that =V= be a Warning to you all
[ Spoiler ]
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Fortune
post Jan 2 2008, 10:47 AM
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Thanks for asking this question Enigma. I have been meaning to find out about these myself. :)
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Daddy's Litt...
post Jan 2 2008, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Jan 2 2008, 05:04 AM)
Depends on your taste, I guess.  Innocence might be described as 'selected reading from philosophy textbooks with audiovisual accompanyment'.  The TV show is much more accessible, even more so than the first movie

Right, the 2nd movie is wonderful to look at as animation but really dense to follow.

The two TV series and the 3rd movie (Solid State Society) are really good for SR.
No magic or metas but lots of sami and deckers. (maybe some riggers hard to say with those combat suits) and yes, they are very good for cyber punk. They show the real quality of writing in anime not rushing to tie up neat little points in 1 episode.

Each of the two series has an over all theme spread over the season with individual adventures inside the season. The first season has only a very broad theme-investigating some hacker leads to a case of corp corruption.

Season 2 (aka 2nd Gig) is more tightly written. Its starts with a group of political radicals and moves into a leader of a quasi revolutionary group among illegal aliens/refugees.

Solid State Society is like the TV series in that it is a long episode/short adventure, dealing with children being kidnapped and mercenaries committing suicide.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 2 2008, 03:41 PM
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Mobile Armored Riot Police is actually not good for cyberpunk at all, considering that in all forms it mostly involves battling to uphold the social system (the "Police" in the name is a hint). Post-cyberpunk, maybe, but I don't think it has quite fallen victim to that disease.

Anyway, in my opinion the general quality spectrum runs thusly:

First movie ~= Innocence > first manga = 1.5 manga > Stand Alone Complex > 2nd Gig > Solid State Society > second manga

I'd recommend most of it except for Solid State Society and the second manga, but even those are entertaining (just, you know, not enough that I can properly recommend them). I'll also warn you that because of the quality of the top end of the list, the bottom end gets judged more harshly than might totally unrelated media—I think Solid State Society would have bothered me less, for example, if it weren't for several scenes which were clumsily (and obviously) designed to echo parts of the first film. Innocence has echoes as well, but they're, well, actually done in an effective manner IMO.

~J
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Karaden
post Jan 2 2008, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele)
[ Spoiler ]

No really, don't read this unless you've finished watching the second season, as it will ruin 33% of the ending.

[ Spoiler ]
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mfb
post Jan 2 2008, 06:53 PM
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GitS:SAC, 2nd Gig, and Solid State Society are fucking awesome. i'm less of a fan of GitS and GitS: Innocence; to me, they both spend too much time hammering you over the head with philosophy that you caught in the first half hour, and not enough badass action sequences. the action stuff that's there is really badass, though. definitely worth watching.

Karaden, watch Solid State Society.

Kage, i think it's fair to call GitS cyberpunk. the main characters may spend all their time upholding society, but that society spends almost all its time trying to corrupt itself--from the top down, from the bottom up, and from the inside out.
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kigmatzomat
post Jan 2 2008, 07:32 PM
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I will heartily recommend the GitS TV series, both for entertainment value and SR (particularly SR4) material. The stories are well written. They tend to repeat certain things over and over, which is really only noticeable if you watch the eps back to back on Tivo or DVD, rather than weekly.

One neat thing is they tend to identify which eps are core to the plot and which are tangents. Side plots will be marked "Standalone" in the title. They still have impact on the over all story but are not involved in the crux of the seasonal plot.

If you want to use GitS for SR, keep in mind that everyone in GitS has an implanted cyberdeck/comm with a full simsense interface. Of course, everyone in SR4 has a comm with optical/audio gear (glasses/contacts, earbuds, etc) and probably some non-hot Simsense so you can still hack people's glasses even if you don't hack their eyes.
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Moon-Hawk
post Jan 2 2008, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (kigmatzomat)
If you want to use GitS for SR, keep in mind that everyone in GitS has an implanted cyberdeck/comm with a full simsense interface. Of course, everyone in SR4 has a comm with optical/audio gear (glasses/contacts, earbuds, etc) and probably some non-hot Simsense so you can still hack people's glasses even if you don't hack their eyes.

Right. SAC is full of inspiration for cool "I can do that?" ideas for AR in SR, for players and GMs alike.
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Sir_Psycho
post Jan 3 2008, 03:37 AM
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You can't go past Innocence for homicidal anthroform prostitute drone inspiration.
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martindv
post Jan 3 2008, 08:21 AM
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It's hardly original inspiration.
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Daddy's Litt...
post Jan 3 2008, 03:00 PM
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One of the early episodes of 2nd Gig has a great back drop. The team is providing security for a corp party where powerful men show off the sex androids. These are their robotic mistress' that they keep secret, because they are considered perverted by the general population..
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Siege
post Jan 3 2008, 10:30 PM
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If you have the chance, watch AD Police Files.

It was a spin-off from the "Bubblegum Crisis" anime with some seriously creepy episodes.

-Siege
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Stahlseele
post Jan 3 2008, 10:35 PM
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and while we're at it, whyx not put in akira and patlabor too? or appleseed? but i digress . .
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Karaden
post Jan 3 2008, 10:50 PM
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QUOTE (mfb)
Karaden, watch Solid State Society.

Alright, will do.
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MaxHunter
post Jan 4 2008, 03:24 PM
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I watched them all. I really enjoyed the first movie, liked a lot the animation of the second though it's too philosophic. The tv series are great, I really enjoyed the 2nd Gig. I also have to absolutely recommend Akira.

And as it seems I am not adding much new to the discussion, I would also like to suggest watching Denno Coil, a cute anime series about hacker children. It's really great.

Cheers,

Max
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Stahlseele
post Jan 4 2008, 03:51 PM
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nah, dennou coil wasn't that good i'd have to say . .
it's a nice idea of how to view the AR in SR4, but nothing more . .
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 4 2008, 04:57 PM
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Akira's a pretty solid recommendation, especially for Chicago-like situations, but that's a pretty big series to read through just for inspiration (though it's totally worth it for its own merits).

~J
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PBTHHHHT
post Jan 4 2008, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (Siege)
If you have the chance, watch AD Police Files.

It was a spin-off from the "Bubblegum Crisis" anime with some seriously creepy episodes.

-Siege

You just have to differentiate between the original bugglegum crisis and ad police files of the 80's and the bubblegum crisis 2040 and its respective ad police series... And then there's this other series that's kinda in the bubblegum crisis world that I have the dvd to which was horrid so I will not name it (actually I forgot the name so it shall remain unnamed).

Dennou coil is okay, the AR aspect really is the best part, especially the hacker fight in episode 4 or so. That and the nice aspect of red tape and bureaucracy shown such as the administrative enforcement programs that cannot enter homes, schools or temples, the schools being part of the department of education turf, and the temples being part of the department of ministry (IIRC) turf. That can be kinda used in shadowrun between the government administration bots roaming around the city proper itself but can't go into corp territory, etc...
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Stahlseele
post Jan 4 2008, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Akira's a pretty solid recommendation, especially for Chicago-like situations, but that's a pretty big series to read through just for inspiration (though it's totally worth it for its own merits).

~J

reading it is so totally worth it . . even if it ain't worth it for Shadowrun purposes *g*
but the movie in itself is good enough too, even if most of the books is missing in there . .
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nezumi
post Jan 4 2008, 06:22 PM
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So which of the bubblegum crisis animes is best?
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PBTHHHHT
post Jan 4 2008, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Jan 4 2008, 01:22 PM)
So which of the bubblegum crisis animes is best?

depends on what you like.
I felt that the Bubblegum Crisis 2037 is great for the 80's feel.
The AD Police files is great for the one shot stories of the bleakness feel of living in that world.

The newer Bubblegum Crisis series, it took me a bit to get used to it, but what I like about it is well... they actually got into the story concerning what's going on and the character history. Stuff that 2037 never got to because of it being canceled too early.

I liked the mecha design better in 2037, the newer ones I personally found a bit hideous in terms of the technology/design feel. The character designs, well, I do like that the 2040 version of Linna actually had a larger part than the 2037 version. Overall, watch both, and then in your memories substitute the 2040 series with the look and feel of the 2037 series and you're good to go. ;-)

In regards to the new AD Police series, I still havent' finished it... judge that as you will.

As for the series that I didn't name earlier, it's known as Parasite Dolls, it's a three episode OAV of a secret group in the AD police and its definitely set in the 2037 universe. Not so good really, I got it because I was a completist and wanted to get my hands on it. The one thing this series does show is...
[ Spoiler ]

Which works for Shadowrun.
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