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> Shadowrunners, Bystanders, Security, and You, the Myth of the Moral Shadowrunner
Kagetenshi
post Apr 7 2005, 03:27 PM
Post #201


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In any discussion of proper Shadowrunner behaviour, inevitably two points come up; the idea that if you fire a gun, the mission is a failure, and the idea that if you render an enemy unconscious rather than dead that your life will be easier in the long run. Let's take a closer look at these ideas. I shall first address this tendency towards pacifism.

Several explanations are given for why it's a good idea to incapacitate rather than kill: it garners less enemies, it's the right thing to do, it achieves the same effect.

"It's the right thing to do". Perhaps. Consider also that the right thing to do is to not actually be Shadowrunning in the first place. Let's make this very clear, Shadowrunners ruin lives. Joe SecGuard allowed the Face access to the building, failed to pick up on the falsified security passcode the Decker was using, and was completely blindsided by the Mage. It wasn't his fault? That's possible. It also makes no difference. If the run resulted in meaningful losses, odds are overwhelmingly that the guard will get heavily reprimanded, and it's not at all unlikely that he'll be fired. Even if he retains his job, his chances of promotion anytime in the next decade or so probably approach a Planck quantity. If other guards died, were fired, or otherwise were affected as a result of his actions (or even if not), you can bet his time at work isn't going to be too pleasant. You have ruined his life, and quite possibly that of his family, if any. The same applies to Billy Burnout the Corp Cyberdemon. Big Billy cost a lot, possibly millions, but he can't even protect against a couple of Shadowrunners. Unless he's an ultra high-end model, he's probably looking at early retirement. The kind where they take out all of the augmentations and don't put anything back in.

"It garners less enemies". Consider: Jane SecGuard, husband to Bob Miscellaneous, with two kids (one twenty and at college, one sixteen), is killed in the line of duty. Who is going to be the enemy? Bob? The kids? In all likelihood, none of them have fired a weapon more dangerous than a taser, at least not outside of a shooting range. What are they going to do? They're probably law-abiding corporate citizens, without the remotest idea how to start looking for street contacts. The only way they'd have a description of the runners is if the corp has it and gives it to them, the latter part being extremely unlikely. Consider on the other hand what happens if Jane is merely tasered or gel-rounded into unconsciousness. She wakes up to reprimands, the scorn of her fellow employees, possibly termination. She goes home to face the family that she's no longer supporting, or that at least she has no meaningful chance of increasing her support to. She is not only motivated, but she actually has weapons training of some variety. She also has a decent chance of having seen the Runners she's after. At best, the situation is the same (no ability to effectively pursue revenge). At worst, the runners now have a motivated enemy with the ability to actually harm them on their tail. This applies doubly for guards without family.

"It achieves the same effect". Any guard who is merely unconscious is one stimpatch away from coming after you again. A dead guard, or even one who's been patched up at twelve boxes of Physical, isn't going to come after you again. All it takes to restore a guard with ten boxes stun to the fight is a stimpatch.

Now, on to the idea that a gun fired ends the Shadowrun: this one is at least vaguely more arguable. A gunshot does not mean a failed Shadowrun. However, except for circumstances in which you can be very assured of the shot remaining unheard, you should not fire until you're ready to leave. Even guards take time to respond. If the alarm goes off while you're shooting your way back out of the secret lab with barely two minutes between you and the door, there isn't going to be any meaningful human opposition in that time. That being said, know your target: sentry guns, containment doors, and some drones don't have that same delay. Regardless, in almost every run, there is a point at which opening up with the weaponry not only fails to harm but actually enhances the likelihood of undamaged survival. Obviously this point cannot be exploited in every run (especially those with uncertain opposition or those in which secrecy is a requirement), but with the exception of places capable of destroying you in under a minute regardless of where you are at the time or places with equipment such that you cannot escape them once they've gotten a lock on you, it will exist.

I suppose I should also talk about the question of bystanders. I've got no problem with killing them, but remember not to let it distract you from your objective. Some Johnsons will look down on it as unprofessional, others will look at it as the height of professionalism (that is, as long as you're eliminating witnesses rather than actively hunting down ordinary people to kill). Those are the risks you take. This should mostly be a by-character decision. Remember, though, if an innocent bystander attacks you or can identify you, they're not an innocent bystander anymore.

I'm most certainly not arguing that Runners should be utterly devoid of morals. No, the idea that I find absurd is that Runners both have morals and follow them. It's a pretty twisted morality (or one that revels in ignorance) that will be fine with 'Running. Your mileage may vary, but I've always found that it's a lot more fun to have a character who wouldn't think of killing innocent bystanders (say, a fourteen-year-old boy and his mother), but who, when faced with the situation, guns them down anyway because he was scared, didn't realize they weren't a threat, was afraid they'd identify him, whatever, rather than someone who just runs on past saying to himself "see how moral I am?"

If we can move on from the idea that leaving witnesses and potential enemies around is "professional", I think we'll all be doing a lot better.

~J
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Posts in this topic
- Kagetenshi   Shadowrunners, Bystanders, Security, and You   Apr 7 2005, 03:27 PM
- - Ascalaphus   I think there's a lot of potential in cutting ...   Nov 19 2009, 08:27 AM
- - Kagetenshi   Actually, Strato-9s are unusual insofar as they fa...   Nov 19 2009, 06:19 PM
|- - Traul   QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 19 2009, 07:19 PM...   Nov 19 2009, 09:12 PM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (Traul @ Nov 19 2009, 04:12 PM) The...   Nov 20 2009, 06:48 AM
- - CanadianWolverine   Phew... Just read through 9 pages of posts. Anywa...   Nov 19 2009, 08:40 PM
- - Drraagh   I think the key here is what type of game are you ...   Nov 20 2009, 06:01 AM
|- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (Drraagh @ Nov 20 2009, 01:01 AM) s...   Nov 20 2009, 11:27 AM
- - kzt   It's always amused me that the 30-40 (Per New ...   Nov 20 2009, 07:09 AM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 20 2009, 02:09 AM) It...   Nov 20 2009, 07:13 AM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 20 2009, 02:09 AM) It...   Nov 20 2009, 12:53 PM
- - Fuchs   In my campaign gangs, Ancients and whatever, are n...   Nov 20 2009, 08:21 AM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 20 2009, 03:21 AM) In ...   Nov 20 2009, 08:35 AM
|- - Fuchs   QUOTE (Jericho Alar @ Nov 20 2009, 09:35 ...   Nov 20 2009, 10:36 AM
|- - Saint Sithney   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 20 2009, 02:36 AM) Tha...   Nov 20 2009, 03:13 PM
- - Fuchs   Lord Togo's in jail afaik. And SR4 corrected s...   Nov 20 2009, 12:09 PM
- - Kagetenshi   Not as of any edition this thread is about. ~J   Nov 20 2009, 12:13 PM
- - Fuchs   But one can still use SR canon - the Spikes will s...   Nov 20 2009, 12:15 PM
|- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 20 2009, 07:15 AM) But...   Nov 20 2009, 12:58 PM
- - Fuchs   How would the changes from SR3 to SR4 influence th...   Nov 20 2009, 01:04 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Seattle will be a very bad place to be a ganger fo...   Nov 20 2009, 01:34 PM
- - Fuchs   I meant the rules changes. Setting changes are cle...   Nov 20 2009, 01:39 PM
|- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 20 2009, 08:39 AM) I m...   Nov 20 2009, 05:38 PM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 20 2009, 08:39 AM) I m...   Nov 21 2009, 05:36 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Jericho Alar @ Nov 20 2009, 10:36 ...   Nov 21 2009, 06:41 AM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 21 2009, 01:41 AM) Yeah,...   Nov 21 2009, 08:48 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Jericho Alar @ Nov 21 2009, 01:48 ...   Nov 21 2009, 06:37 PM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 21 2009, 01:37 PM) A Lon...   Nov 22 2009, 01:43 AM
- - Jack Kain   I'm going to reinforce a point I'm sure ha...   Nov 21 2009, 09:51 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Nov 21 2009, 02:51 AM)...   Nov 21 2009, 06:20 PM
|- - CanadianWolverine   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 21 2009, 12:20 PM) It is...   Nov 21 2009, 06:34 PM
- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (NAGNA)THE INSURANCE WAR One of the darkest ...   Nov 21 2009, 03:05 PM
|- - Saint Sithney   QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 21 2009, 07:05 AM...   Nov 22 2009, 10:31 AM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 22 2009, 05:31...   Nov 22 2009, 05:20 PM
- - Marcus   ethics are subjective and relative. Lets face it B...   Nov 22 2009, 07:03 PM
- - Drraagh   I will admit it has been a while since I've re...   Nov 22 2009, 09:00 PM
- - AngelisStorm   The thing that I've always wondered about (and...   Nov 23 2009, 01:08 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (AngelisStorm @ Nov 23 2009, 06:08 ...   Nov 23 2009, 03:54 PM
- - Ascalaphus   Good points! Crime reduction is always a two-...   Nov 23 2009, 01:52 PM
- - Fuchs   Warsaw showed twice (1943 and 1944) what happens w...   Nov 23 2009, 01:56 PM
|- - Warlordtheft   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 23 2009, 08:56 AM) War...   Nov 23 2009, 03:30 PM
- - AngelisStorm   If you have the option to shell a area from the ou...   Nov 23 2009, 02:13 PM
- - Fuchs   Having access to something, and being trained in i...   Nov 23 2009, 02:28 PM
- - Fuchs   Washington had an army at Yorktown, not some punks...   Nov 23 2009, 03:53 PM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 23 2009, 10:53 AM) Was...   Nov 23 2009, 03:56 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Jericho Alar @ Nov 23 2009, 08:56 ...   Nov 23 2009, 04:15 PM
|- - Sixgun_Sage   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 23 2009, 11:15 AM) There...   Nov 23 2009, 04:49 PM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 23 2009, 11:15 AM) There...   Nov 23 2009, 07:09 PM
- - Ascalaphus   Like I pointed out above, it costs about 100K to b...   Nov 23 2009, 04:44 PM
- - Semerkhet   Can we consider any of the real world's most n...   Nov 23 2009, 09:27 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Semerkhet @ Nov 23 2009, 02:27 PM)...   Nov 24 2009, 06:28 AM
- - Ascalaphus   I'd say that the normal situation is that it...   Nov 23 2009, 10:14 PM
- - Mercer   I would say that if a condition persists in Shadow...   Nov 23 2009, 10:46 PM
- - Fuchs   I'd say it would not take a lot to make the ge...   Nov 24 2009, 12:35 AM
|- - Mercer   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Nov 24 2009, 01:35 AM) I...   Nov 24 2009, 04:41 PM
|- - Semerkhet   QUOTE (Mercer @ Nov 24 2009, 10:41 AM) I ...   Nov 24 2009, 06:11 PM
- - Mercer   A RL example of this would be the protests in Iran...   Nov 24 2009, 06:24 PM
- - Saint Sithney   Gang problem? Sure, there are modern instances of...   Nov 25 2009, 09:52 AM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 25 2009, 04:52...   Nov 26 2009, 03:32 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Jericho Alar @ Nov 25 2009, 08:32 ...   Nov 26 2009, 04:00 AM
||- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 25 2009, 11:00 PM) And p...   Nov 26 2009, 05:09 AM
||- - kzt   QUOTE (Jericho Alar @ Nov 25 2009, 10:09 ...   Nov 26 2009, 06:19 AM
||- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 26 2009, 01:19 AM) Reall...   Nov 27 2009, 03:58 AM
|- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (Jericho Alar @ Nov 25 2009, 10:32 ...   Nov 26 2009, 07:05 PM
- - Critias   It all comes down to what you mean by "fancy ...   Nov 25 2009, 10:29 PM
- - kzt   The Hell's Angels/Banditos fights in the 90s i...   Nov 25 2009, 11:20 PM
- - Kagetenshi   Another note I found in NAGNA while doing some res...   Nov 27 2009, 06:16 AM
- - Cthulhudreams   Almost all goods are shipped at nights because the...   Nov 27 2009, 11:10 AM
|- - Mercer   QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Nov 27 2009, 11:10...   Nov 27 2009, 04:01 PM
|- - Jericho Alar   QUOTE (Mercer @ Nov 27 2009, 11:01 AM) I ...   Nov 27 2009, 06:54 PM
- - Kagetenshi   So then the logical conclusion that remains is tha...   Nov 27 2009, 01:05 PM
|- - Fuchs   QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 27 2009, 02:05 PM...   Nov 27 2009, 01:33 PM
- - Mercer   Expounding on my earlier point (and this has been ...   Nov 27 2009, 06:49 PM
- - tete   QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Apr 7 2005, 04:27 PM)...   Nov 27 2009, 07:22 PM
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