UCAS intelligence agencies, Who are the new spooks? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Switch to: Standard Linear+

[Tanegar]

Are the CIA, NSA, et al. still around? Are they trading under different names, and if so, what are the new names?

[D2F]

Are the CIA, NSA, et al. still around? Are they trading under different names, and if so, what are the new names?

Gut answer: yes and by the same names. The CAS agencies might have different names.

[Nifft]

Gut answer: yes and by the same names. The CAS agencies might have different names.

"Confederate Intelligence Agency": same letters, slightly different font. Even field agents sometimes get confused about which one is theirs, as both sides can truthfully say they're with the CIA.

[D2F]

"Confederate Intelligence Agency": same letters, slightly different font. Even field agents sometimes get confused about which one is theirs, as both sides can truthfully say they're with the CIA.

What about the NSA and Homeland Security`?

[Nifft]

What about the NSA and Homeland Security`?

Nashville Security Associates (a private contractor), of course.

Dunno about Homeland Security... they could just keep the name, since "homeland" isn't very specific.

[MJBurrage]

According to Shadows of North America:

The Department of Domestic Investigation (DDI) handles investigations within the CAS (equivalent to the UCAS FBI). It also includes the Confederation Secret Service (CSS), which is responsible for protecting key political figures (like the President) and investigating Matrix-related crimes.

The Department of Strategic Intelligence (DSI) is the CAS's chief intelligence agency. Unlike the UCAS (which still has the CIA, DIA, NSA, NRO, Pentagon, etc.), practically all CAS intelligence and covert ops fall under the the DSI. The only intelligence work the DSI doesn’t perform is against the megacorps (which falls under the ERLA) and the military battlefield.

The Extraterritoriality Registry and Liaison Agency (ERLA), is part of the Bureau of Commerce. It maintains a register of all extraterritorial corporations and their domains within the CAS. The ERLA also tracks real estate issues and has approval authority over any real estate transaction involving extraterritorial corporations.

[kzt]

They don't talk about the Black Chamber, do they? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Dread Moores]

They don't talk about the Black Chamber, do they? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Only in Delta Green. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kzt]

Only in Delta Green. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I was thinking of Charles Stross' Laundry books

[Angelone]

Vice mentions the department of Homeland security somewhere, so they are still active. As is the NSA, CIA, FBI. They are different in CAS and the NAN. In Souix it's Omni or something simular.

[Nath]

OMI, Sioux Office of Military Intelligence.

[LivingOxymoron]

What about the NSA and Homeland Security`?

I would expect that the NSA is still around, with a much expanded role given the expansion into the digital world. I wouldn't be surprised if an offshoot of the NSA handles issues dealing with technomancers, AIs, and Free Sprites.

As for Homeland Security... that's a little tricky.

Given that Shadowrun was first conceived in 1989, before the existence of DHS, it is interesting to me that it has shown up in recent books. While there is no official story behind it, we DO know that 9/11/01 didn't happen in the Shadowrun universe, so there would be no canon reason for it to exist from the beginning of the 21st Century. The way I handle it in my story is that it was created after the 2nd Crash, in response to a devastating attack on UCAS soil by a foreign terrorist group (Winternight). Since it caught the UCAS Intelligence Community off guard, legislation was proposed to merge several agencies under the same umbrella.

Same animal, different origin.

[LivingOxymoron]

There was also UCAS Consular Operations, a Black Ops division of the UCAS State Department. This was, in actuality, a joint venture between the UCAS CIA and the CAS DSI to jointly spy on other nations and share intelligence useful to both nations, using the State Department as cover. An inter-agency squabble in the UCAS shut them down.

[Snow_Fox]

The RL US intelligence services have never had a reputation for great operational personel but have the best toys and know how to use them. With this in mind the development of the cybered world should actually work really well in their favor over other nations.

A lot of crap would be cut away due to the war with NAN, loss of revenue and budgets cuts.

There'd be borderr security that I think would be folded into the Secret Service that also protects the officials and the monetary supply. I suspect they would eat up the NSA since knowledge is such a big part of wealth now.

CIA for over seas work-which now would include much of what we call USA would have a BIG jump.

FBI would have a smaller roll due to a smaller nation and I think might get gobbled up by the Justice Department's Marshall's office. There might still be FBI agents but they would now be a part of the Marshall's office, like plains clothes detective and uniformed cops.

For the paranoid among you the real issue might be their area of ops. The CIA does not have a mandate to operate in the US. So do they now get to operate in places like LA or Vegas or Atlanta, OR does the FBI justifiy their existance by doing black ops in parts of the former USA claiming it was on their maps and the norht shall rise again!

[LurkerOutThere]

Actually if the US Military is pulled back from abroad it seems more likely then not they'd be placed in charge of border security especially with posse commitus being essentially out the window this also adds to the fun of runners trying to jump borders getting to throw down with the army.

NSA is literally the big dog in US intel especially digital intelligence I can't see them getting folded up or at leas tnot folding up in a subservient role, partially due to them handling both foreign and domestic intelligence gathering duties whereas the FBI and CIA are both limited to their respective playgrounds.

As for DHS if they are important in your games by all means put them in, but based on their current in universe performance i'm not sure they'd stick around or even form the way they have.

[Ascalaphus]

I think the FBI will be more important; with all the private police corporations, the government needs some way to keep (the semblance of) control. They watch the watchers.

[Snow_Fox]

No ,they fall under the CIA since they're not US soil

[FlakJacket]

Are the CIA, NSA, et al. still around? Are they trading under different names, and if so, what are the new names?

Yeah they're still around. Off the top of my head the Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, Defence Intelligence Agency, and FBI are all mentioned as still about in various sourcebooks with the same general set-ups and responsibilities as nowadays. The Department of Homeland Security has cropped up in more recent books but I'm not really up to speed on those so I've no idea what they've written it as doing in the 2060s/70s.

[Ascalaphus]

No ,they fall under the CIA since they're not US soil

I meant municipal rentacops, like Lone Star or Knight Errant in Seattle. The FBI certainly has a role in keeping an eye on their activities.

[FlakJacket]

I think what Snow_Fox meant was that since corporations like Lone Star are extraterritorial they and their properties are effectively a foreign country, which means outside the domestic jurisdiction of the FBI. For dealing with extraterritorial corporations you'd probably need some sort of FBI/CIA joint task force since it covers both domestic and foreign jurisdictions.

[Eimi]

I would write up a lengthy post about the place for the Canadian agencies in the UCAS, particularly CSIS and the RCMP, but, well, as any other Canadian Shadowrun player would know the answer to, what's the point?

[LurkerOutThere]

Not necissarily, they've never spelled it out specifically how extraterritoriality works in Shadowrun, the construct of the original supreme court decision that everything else is based off of is the corporations have displayed legal right to protect their own territory and interests in furtherance of the greater good. THat and the legal non-entities status of the sinless or non nationaly sinned personages allows them to do what they do. That doesn't necissarily mean that the UCAS and other governments don't consider the territory still theirs. They might "deign to allow" the corps to administer their own affairs but they might at least in theory consider the territory still theirs.

After that we come down to ability to actually enforce national power.

People often get this wrong and I'm continually amused by it. The corporations are not technically sovereign and with the notable exception of Aztecnology are not allowed to dabble in the business of running nations. Now functionally the nations are all but powerless but the Corporate Court works very very hard to keep up the charade.

Exceptions do occur, see Manhattan and Aztalan.

[Ascalaphus]

I think what Snow_Fox meant was that since corporations like Lone Star are extraterritorial they and their properties are effectively a foreign country, which means outside the domestic jurisdiction of the FBI. For dealing with extraterritorial corporations you'd probably need some sort of FBI/CIA joint task force since it covers both domestic and foreign jurisdictions.

But if you hire Knight-Errant to protect Seattle, that doesn't mean Seattle becomes Knight-Errant territory. It's still UCAS, still FBI jurisdiction. Which in fact puts the FBI in the position of trying to keep some oversight on how rentacops do their job in the UCAS.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The alphabet soup is mentioned in Runner Havens as it pertains to Seattle. Yes they DO still have CIA, FBI, NSA and IRS in Seattle. Then they have two military groups. I just got the book yesterday but if I remember one is like a national guard. Underfunded and corrupt as heck, and the other was the unit that was put together when the Acrology locked it self down and had to be liberated. It's been expanded and is sort of saber ratteling to getting more pull and clout.

Someone more 'Up to date' with 4th edition can no doubt give you proper names, but I remember reading that section last night. Well skimming it.

[Dread Moores]

I think what Snow_Fox meant was that since corporations like Lone Star are extraterritorial they and their properties are effectively a foreign country, which means outside the domestic jurisdiction of the FBI. For dealing with extraterritorial corporations you'd probably need some sort of FBI/CIA joint task force since it covers both domestic and foreign jurisdictions.

Except that material in Vice seems to indicate that the FBI is the primary party forced to work with Lone Star and KE. I'll try and grab some quotes later, don't have the book handy at the moment. I was a little surprised by that, as I would have expected it was more CIA territory.