CGL Speculation #7 Options

[BlueMax]

Question purely for curiosity's sake: Did you encourage the freelancers to post defending CGL/IMR? If so, are they posting on behalf of CGL? It really doesn't matter either way, I'm just fascinated by the PR angle in this story.

I hope he pulled a Herb. Herb's posts about who can talk about what on the classicbattletech forums are legendary.

BlueMax

[JM Hardy]

Question purely for curiosity's sake: Did you encourage the freelancers to post defending CGL/IMR? If so, are they posting on behalf of CGL? It really doesn't matter either way, I'm just fascinated by the PR angle in this story.

No, I did not tell freelancers to post defending CGL/IMR. I view freelancers as noble cheetahs on the savannah, running fast and free, meaning that any efforts to control them would likely be both futile and frustrating. Besides, they are individuals with their own opinions, and I don't feel comfortable dictating opinions to them just because I occasionally hire them for stuff. While the normal stuff about not sharing confidential material remains in place, I haven't (as far as I can recall) given further directives to the freelancers about communications. I view the PR stuff here as my responsibility.

Jason H.

[RunnerPaul]

OK, sounds like your information was entered differently then mine then, or something. Having not gotten an email, I have no idea what is and isn't in the "order comments". If the correct address is in the Battleshop computer though, I would assume that the shipment will go to the correct address? Or did the email you got have your old address on it still?

Tara's just emailed me to confirm that the change of address is in place and now that I know she's aware of it, I consider this resolved.



Initially, back last May when I put in the change of address, I got the following automated email (personal information redacted with ####'s):

Subject: Order Update
From: Catalyst Game Labs <quartermaster@catalystgamelabs.com>
To: ###############

BattleShop
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: #####
Detailed Invoice: https://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/account...?order_id=#####
Date Ordered: Friday 13 March, 2009

The comments for your order are

New Address:

###############
###############
###############



Your order has been updated to the following status.

New status: 20th Anniversary SR4 Pre-Order

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

This was acompanied by a personal email from Troy explaining that their system doesn't allow the listed delivery address to be changed once the order had been placed, which is why the new address was added via the Order Comments section. (In fact, when I look my order up on Battleshop, it still lists the old address under the Delivery Address section at the top.)


The update email I had gotten from Tara was as follows:

Subject: Order Update
From: Catalyst Game Labs <bills_tara@comcast.net>
To: ###############

BattleShop
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: #####
Detailed Invoice: https://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/account...?order_id=#####
Date Ordered: Friday 13 March, 2009

The comments for your order are





Your order has been updated to the following status.

New status: Processing

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

Apparently, when these automated update emails get sent out, they only list what's been added to the Order Comments for that particular update, and not the entire Order Comments section, which is where the confusion came in.

[otakusensei]

I can think of a big reason.

If even 1/10th of what we've heard is true, then Coleman is a blatant thief that has stolen over $700,000. If they announce early, then someone already proven to be a huge thief and Dbag,will have that time in which to steal everything else that's not bolted down and bring in some wrenches and screwdrivers and stuff for that which is.

The guy can't be trusted and is clearly a thief, that's pretty much universally accepted no matter which side of this you're coming down on. To announce early would just prompt him to take everything he can before he looses it.

I know.. a bit of a negative view.. but a guy that builds a mansion in a gated community with company funds while checks to writers bounce.. will steal company property and 'misplace it' for gain later.

Edit:

That same person that sees nothing wrong with stealing 100sof 1000s of dollars is also not above taking/destroying/corrupting data and stuff to prevent others from benefiting. Torpeedoing the stuff in progress or taking and shredding (deleting) it all out of spite if he can't profit over it.

SPECULATION. Sure. Totally 100%.. but if you see nothing wrong with stealing hundreds of thousands of bucks. You're a schmuck that I wouldn't trust on ANYTHING with the business.

I share a lot of your sentiment, but I'm trying to look at things from Topps perspective.

AH has a point about insolvency. It's a fact, either they are or they aren't. If they are insolvent, an audit will determine that eventually and the body will just keep shuffling along until the brain says it's dead. If they aren't insolvent now they will be if they don't get the license.

I just figure that right now Topps is interested in CGL being solvent. If CGL wants to flaunt that and leave LLC at the head of negotiations with Topps, that's up to them. It's a ballsy move, one in a million kinda thing, but Coleman is no hero. I can only speculate on the reasoning of those "titans of the gaming industry" who spoke to Randall. But there is someone on the other side of that negotiating table who needs to be representing the best interests of Topps, and I'll bet he isn't going to be impressed.

[emouse]

I haven't been following much for a few days, but I was wondering if there's been any changes or updates on books becoming available again?

Has anyone with access to the database seen any changes with regard to the Chapter 7 filing?

[emouse]

I share a lot of your sentiment, but I'm trying to look at things from Topps perspective.

I just figure that right now Topps is interested in CGL being solvent. If CGL wants to flaunt that and leave LLC at the head of negotiations with Topps, that's up to them.

Topps has had some relatively recent experience with selling game properties with the selling of WizKids to NECA. Initially, BT/SR seemed to be part of the package, and what IMR put a bid in on, until Topps separated the licenses from the package. It's possible that Topps has a list of 'interested parties' from that initial offering, and would be inquiring with people on that list to see if they have an alternative to IMR.

Ultimately, I think Topps will be judging the situation based on a combination of what IMR owes them, whether IMR can demonstrate to them a workable plan to turn things around, and whether there is anyone else waiting in the wings to buy or license the properties. If there's no one else waving money around, I can easily see Topps granting IMR a soft renewal, conditional on stricter oversight and prompt payments. It would mean that things would continue to be touch-and-go for IMR for a while, but it's probably the best chance they'd get.

[otakusensei]

Topps has had some relatively recent experience with selling game properties with the selling of WizKids to NECA. Initially, BT/SR seemed to be part of the package, and what IMR put a bid in on, until Topps separated the licenses from the package. It's possible that Topps has a list of 'interested parties' from that initial offering, and would be inquiring with people on that list to see if they have an alternative to IMR.

Ultimately, I think Topps will be judging the situation based on a combination of what IMR owes them, whether IMR can demonstrate to them a workable plan to turn things around, and whether there is anyone else waiting in the wings to buy or license the properties. If there's no one else waving money around, I can easily see Topps granting IMR a soft renewal, conditional on stricter oversight and prompt payments. It would mean that things would continue to be touch-and-go for IMR for a while, but it's probably the best chance they'd get.

I agree. While I'd love to think that my beloved Shadowrun has any number of interested parties bargaining over the chance to pick up the license, I can't think of anyone who's come out and stated they have made an offer. Even when IMR was in talks to buy the IP outright, I don't recall hearing about anyone else who wanted it as well.

[Bull]

The problem isn't folks who are interested. The problem is folks who are interested and could possibly lay down the kind of money required for the license, let alone to start working on a new game line.

[kzt]

Interested without funds and ability to work don't count. If someone gave me the license and 10 skilled people came to me and told me how they would love to work on it full time without pay I doubt I could fund the printing....

[emouse]

I agree. While I'd love to think that my beloved Shadowrun has any number of interested parties bargaining over the chance to pick up the license, I can't think of anyone who's come out and stated they have made an offer. Even when IMR was in talks to buy the IP outright, I don't recall hearing about anyone else who wanted it as well.

Well, with the WizKids sale, I know of only two parties who openly bid: IMR and Pinata. Both sales of WK properties went to bidders who were less public, the first sale was going to be to someone setting up a new entity but that sale fell through and the second sale went to NECA, who didn't say anything about the purchase until Toy Fair.

[Adam]

I agree. While I'd love to think that my beloved Shadowrun has any number of interested parties bargaining over the chance to pick up the license, I can't think of anyone who's come out and stated they have made an offer. Even when IMR was in talks to buy the IP outright, I don't recall hearing about anyone else who wanted it as well.

It's pretty rare to come out publicly and say that you're trying to acquire a license or property. There are other companies looking to acquire the licenses -- I'd say at least a handful.

[Cthulhudreams]

If I may?

Didn't Tiger Eyes leave because she was asked to defraud Topps, but refused?

Doesn't that imply, perhaps, that Topps never saw the defrauding get to their offices? IE, her leaving and this whole shitstorm has had the positive effect of a true, accurate proposal for keeping the license get put forward?

Sure, but now Topps knows that IMR has attempted to defraud them. People have run topps and communicated on the matter directly Plus secondary sources indicate that IMR has, infact, defrauded Topps in whole or in part for some royalty payments (e.g. if stock has been sold twice).

I prefer to stick to Tiger Eyes statements, because when she makes a personal attack on Coleman/Randall it's totally okay and no-one will call me a pure citation of her statement that she was asked by IMR to defraud Topps.

[otakusensei]

It's pretty rare to come out publicly and say that you're trying to acquire a license or property. There are other companies looking to acquire the licenses -- I'd say at least a handful.

Awesome to hear. I appreciate the info.

[Dread Moores]

Doc--I'm honestly not sure where Frank came up with that number. There are number of steps and processes that go into a book from Idea to Store-shelf. Depending on the project, that could be a multi-year process or shortened down.

StratOps...I'm looking at you for that last line.

[The Monk]

It's pretty rare to come out publicly and say that you're trying to acquire a license or property. There are other companies looking to acquire the licenses -- I'd say at least a handful.

Is it too much to hope Posthuman is one of them? Never mind don't answer that!

[Jaid]

Is it too much to hope Posthuman is one of them? Never mind don't answer that!

it's unlikely that posthuman has the kind of money needed to make a bid, unless they've got some investors we don't know about.

[Abschalten]

I'd rather Posthuman focused on their flagship product, Eclipse Phase, and put all their effort into making that as awesome a game as they can (and it indeed already is very awesome.) Shadowrun is in a bad place right now and I'd hate to see them taking time away from original IPs to clean up the mess that's being made of it.

[Fuchs]

The product "Shadowrun" is solid. Though that could be because a big part of the recent and future main releases (Vice and Corp Guide) still was mainly the work of Synner (Peter Taylor). The "mess" so far seems limited to the company that currently produces Shadowrun. There wouldn't be that much to "clean up" that mess.

[Cthulhudreams]

The runner's companion is pretty crap.

[Fuchs]

The runner's companion is pretty crap.

Well, I'd say it needs a lot of "GM Customization", but it's not completely useless.

[Cthulhudreams]

Okay, let me try that again. Compared to the much, much, much higher standard of quality of the core book and street magic, it is very poor.

[Dixie Flatline]

4) I'd be willing to bet that Topps doesn't give a devil rats ass about Shadowrun or Battletech. All they want is paid. If that happens, CGL gets the license back.

I'd disagree here.

Topps cares about the continued profitability of it's intellectual property. It's under a legal obligation to it's shareholders to vigorously protect that profitability.

If, say, Mustache Twirling Publishers LLC (I refuse to use a real company for this example) decided to use the Shadowrun brand to, say, openly advocate Sedition of the real-world USA, or openly and actively advocates say racism in a real world setting, or details how to actually commit crimes in the real world for money, you can bet your sweet ass Topps would pull the license regardless of how much MTP LLC might be paying them.

Extreme, unrealistic example? Absolutely. But my point is there *is* a line there. I don't know where Topps draws that line, but at a certain point, they have a vested interest and a legal obligation to protect the reputation of Shadowrun and Battletech as IPs, since they will be around a lot longer than IMR or Catalyst.

If Topps has a choice between IMR and another entity willing to pay the license fees, and the other entity can say "we haven't shorted you on royalties, and we don't have a reputation that IMR has right now", then IMR is going to have it's work cut out for it.

[Fuchs]

Okay, let me try that again. Compared to the much, much, much higher standard of quality of the core book and street magic, it is very poor.

Yeah.

[Synner667]

If, say, Mustache Twirling Publishers LLC (I refuse to use a real company for this example) decided to use the Shadowrun brand to, say, openly advocate Sedition of the real-world USA, or openly and actively advocates say racism in a real world setting, or details how to actually commit crimes in the real world for money, you can bet your sweet ass Topps would pull the license regardless of how much MTP LLC might be paying them.

That is such a great name for a company !!
Or even Twirling Moustache Publishing !!

[otakusensei]

Extreme, unrealistic example? Absolutely. But my point is there *is* a line there. I don't know where Topps draws that line, but at a certain point, they have a vested interest and a legal obligation to protect the reputation of Shadowrun and Battletech as IPs, since they will be around a lot longer than IMR or Catalyst.

If Topps has a choice between IMR and another entity willing to pay the license fees, and the other entity can say "we haven't shorted you on royalties, and we don't have a reputation that IMR has right now", then IMR is going to have it's work cut out for it.

I can see that, but from Topps perspective they weren't slighted by Coleman's actions. As a business entity that has a contract with another business entity, they are guaranteed certain royalties that have apparently not been delivered. The audit is to assess what those royalties are. They will then either expect a check from IMR, or take them to court to seek restitution.

Timing is everything here as the end of the contract is coming up in May. Topps doesn't care if Stalin is publishing Shadowrun, as long as they are getting their royalties. If they aren't, you won't see any statement of outrage; there will be lawyers and they will get the money.

This is the time for other companies to come in and make another offer. If Topps believes that IMR has a shot at meeting the financial requirements for retaining the license, Topps can use that to expect higher bids. If IMR is insolvent and basically a corpse at the bargaining table, Topps will want the appearance of IMRs solvency to raise any possible bids.

Looking at this from Topps perspective, I would guess we won't hear anything in May, and maybe not until after GenCon. They really don't have a reason to hurry, they know how much Shadowrun is worth and they will be getting a good chuck of money up front. I'm sure they want to make sure that IMR is in a position to pay their dues before Topps let's them off the hook. IMR or anyone else coming in will most likely have to show strong financial controls are in place as part of the new contract terms. And contracts aren't quick. Even a simple back and forth over a line can take weeks as lawyers on both sides review changes and reach an agreement. Frequently the legal teams never speak to each other, and the contract may never be in the room with both parties until they are ready to sign. Even then it may be handled remotely and simply mailed back and forth, or faxed if both parties agree. Whatever happen I'm less sure we'll get a resolution in May, but we'll most likely hear something.

Not being able to show at GenCon will hurt whoever is publishing Shadowrun this year, but there's always next year; Shadowrun is a strong enough brand that has been around a while. It will most likely be another six months or so before we see books. I'd estimate that as fast, but I'm pulling that number out of my ass. There are so many other factors that can effect this.