IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Cain
post Aug 14 2010, 09:06 PM
Post #201


Grand Master of Run-Fu
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,840
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Tir Tairngire
Member No.: 178



QUOTE
So let me get this straight, just to be on the same page here...

If my character spends time observing his opposition, obtaining information on his hangouts, his preferences, his equipment, his operational tactics, his spell selections, and his tactics, then I am Cheating? If that is not the case, then why would it be cheating for an NPC to perform the same surveillance to acquire the same information? And, having gathered that information, why would it be cheating to pass it along to his allies so that they will be prepared whenever they encounter said character (Ad infinitum, of course).

It is not the Fault of a GM if characters become predictable in their operations, spell useage, equipment choices, or tactics.

In the case I mentioned, every NPC and his brother knew the PC's preferred tactics and magic items. They knew that all had Rings of Fire Resistance, so suddenly all the mages stopped throwing fire spells. What's more, in the example that started it all, the NPC's deduced the PC's entire gear set and tactics off the fact they had something with a Device rating of 6 (and the attendant Signal rating). That is cheating.

From your posts in the other thread, I know you think GM cheating is okay. Unfortunately, it isn't-- metagaming your knowledge to one PC is bad enough, but giving it to a lot of NPC's is even worse.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Cain   Metagaming   Aug 14 2010, 09:06 PM
- - DireRadiant   When I GM I feel like I'm spending most of my ...   Aug 19 2010, 05:02 PM
- - Caine Hazen   The only thing I can obviously deduce from the thr...   Aug 19 2010, 06:08 PM
- - deek   I haven't actually played or run Shadowrun in ...   Aug 19 2010, 06:20 PM
- - tete   What if the GM thinks hes making it more fun but h...   Aug 19 2010, 09:45 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 20 2010, 12...   Aug 19 2010, 09:53 PM
|- - tete   QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 19 2010, 10:53 PM) Eh-...   Aug 19 2010, 10:18 PM
|- - sabs   QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 19 2010, 09:53 PM) But...   Aug 19 2010, 11:07 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (sabs @ Aug 20 2010, 03:07 AM) In P...   Aug 21 2010, 08:50 AM
|- - sabs   QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 21 2010, 09:50 AM) Tha...   Aug 23 2010, 01:06 PM
|- - KarmaInferno   QUOTE (sabs @ Aug 23 2010, 09:06 AM) onli...   Aug 23 2010, 02:02 PM
- - Doc Chase   That's up to them to say, now isn't it?   Aug 19 2010, 09:47 PM
- - Cain   How you deal with cheating GMs is up to you. The ...   Aug 20 2010, 12:30 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Agreed. Obviously, the problem is a 'hostile...   Aug 20 2010, 12:47 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 19 2010, 05:47 PM...   Aug 20 2010, 02:21 AM
|- - Shinobi Killfist   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 19 2010, 09:21 PM) Actu...   Aug 20 2010, 02:33 AM
|- - suoq   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 19 2010, 09:21 PM) If w...   Aug 20 2010, 01:29 PM
|- - Doc Chase   QUOTE (suoq @ Aug 20 2010, 02:29 PM) If y...   Aug 20 2010, 02:04 PM
- - Yerameyahu   That's what 'hostile' meant, Cain. Ot...   Aug 20 2010, 02:52 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 19 2010, 07:52 PM...   Aug 20 2010, 03:01 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Well, sort of. If the story is more important than...   Aug 20 2010, 03:03 AM
- - Glyph   Storytelling and open playground are less two dist...   Aug 20 2010, 04:32 AM
|- - Warlordtheft   QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 20 2010, 12:32 AM) Sto...   Aug 20 2010, 01:16 PM
- - KarmaInferno   It boils down to the really old rule. Don't b...   Aug 20 2010, 07:55 AM
- - nezumi   QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 19 2010, 09...   Aug 20 2010, 11:06 AM
- - deek   That's easier said than done, suoq. I've ...   Aug 20 2010, 02:13 PM
- - nezumi   If you need to meet random people, do it. Go out t...   Aug 20 2010, 02:23 PM
|- - deek   QUOTE (nezumi @ Aug 20 2010, 09:23 AM) If...   Aug 20 2010, 02:33 PM
- - tete   Its also harder in some places than others. Seattl...   Aug 20 2010, 05:36 PM
|- - Shinobi Killfist   QUOTE (tete @ Aug 20 2010, 01:36 PM) Its ...   Aug 20 2010, 05:42 PM
|- - suoq   QUOTE (tete @ Aug 20 2010, 11:36 AM) in Y...   Aug 20 2010, 05:47 PM
- - Ascalaphus   suoq: that's some very interesting advice. I ...   Aug 20 2010, 07:58 PM
- - tete   Dude I live in Seattle, I was talking about when I...   Aug 20 2010, 08:02 PM
- - Cain   Finding a good gaming group is a challenge, no dou...   Aug 21 2010, 06:15 AM
- - Yerameyahu   No, in-person is much better. You're right tha...   Aug 21 2010, 02:19 PM
- - Fatum   Your proofs are very conclusive, Yerameyahu.   Aug 21 2010, 02:44 PM
- - Mooncrow   Because it's clearly an objectively measurable...   Aug 21 2010, 02:52 PM
- - Yerameyahu   Exactly.   Aug 21 2010, 02:54 PM
- - KarmaInferno   Tabletop is better because I can't throw dice ...   Aug 21 2010, 05:34 PM
- - Fatum   You can kick them from the gaming channel, though.   Aug 21 2010, 05:57 PM
- - Randomonioum   Overkill much?   Aug 21 2010, 06:28 PM
- - Fatum   Nah, everyone's got autoreconnect on anyway. ...   Aug 21 2010, 06:38 PM
- - Randomonioum   Fair enough, that was just me being ignorant.   Aug 21 2010, 06:39 PM
- - Cain   I think live is better. People don't edit the...   Aug 23 2010, 10:03 AM
|- - Warlordtheft   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 23 2010, 06:03 AM) I th...   Aug 23 2010, 06:55 PM
- - nezumi   Funny, my online game has been running for 7 years...   Aug 23 2010, 01:47 PM
- - sabs   Play By Post? I don't even count that as playi...   Aug 23 2010, 01:50 PM
|- - nezumi   QUOTE (sabs @ Aug 23 2010, 09:50 AM) Play...   Aug 23 2010, 06:43 PM
- - Yerameyahu   sabs did say "I don't", not, 'it...   Aug 23 2010, 06:52 PM
|- - Grinder   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 23 2010, 08:52 PM...   Aug 23 2010, 06:53 PM
- - Yerameyahu   I agree. For me, live is more fun. I've done b...   Aug 23 2010, 06:57 PM
- - deek   I like live games because I enjoy hanging out with...   Aug 23 2010, 08:32 PM
- - Cain   Well, to get things back on topic, what do you thi...   Aug 23 2010, 08:34 PM
|- - Shinobi Killfist   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 23 2010, 04:34 PM) Well...   Aug 23 2010, 08:39 PM
|- - Doc Chase   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 23 2010, 08:34 PM) Well...   Aug 23 2010, 08:43 PM
|- - sabs   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 23 2010, 08:34 PM) Well...   Aug 23 2010, 08:46 PM
|- - Rock N Roll   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 23 2010, 08:34 PM) Well...   Aug 23 2010, 08:55 PM
|- - tete   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 23 2010, 09:34 PM) Well...   Aug 23 2010, 09:14 PM
- - Traul   Depends what you call the middle of a game. I...   Aug 23 2010, 08:40 PM
- - deek   I'm okay with the mid-stream rule change, assu...   Aug 23 2010, 08:47 PM
- - Yerameyahu   As always, the answer is 'it depends'. May...   Aug 23 2010, 08:48 PM
- - Shinobi Killfist   god I'm going to use a 4e D&D example. Fo...   Aug 23 2010, 08:56 PM
|- - Rock N Roll   Your example seems more like rules interpretation,...   Aug 23 2010, 09:04 PM
|- - Shinobi Killfist   QUOTE (Rock N Roll @ Aug 23 2010, 05:04 P...   Aug 23 2010, 09:12 PM
- - suoq   I'm also not sure what "changing a rule...   Aug 23 2010, 09:07 PM
- - Yerameyahu   Yeah, D&D learned the hard way to make mechani...   Aug 23 2010, 09:14 PM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 23 2010, 02:14 PM...   Aug 23 2010, 11:12 PM
|- - Shinobi Killfist   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 23 2010, 05:14 PM...   Aug 24 2010, 01:20 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Yes, vague rules do allow players (even theoretica...   Aug 24 2010, 01:25 AM
- - sabs   What D&D taught me is that no game can survive...   Aug 24 2010, 01:46 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE It's also unfair (in my opinion) to actu...   Aug 24 2010, 06:59 AM
|- - suoq   QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 24 2010, 12:59 AM) This...   Aug 24 2010, 11:12 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (suoq @ Aug 24 2010, 07:12 PM) What...   Aug 24 2010, 11:38 AM
|- - suoq   QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 24 2010, 05:38 AM) Yo...   Aug 24 2010, 11:58 AM
||- - tete   QUOTE (suoq @ Aug 24 2010, 12:58 PM) How ...   Aug 24 2010, 03:43 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 24 2010, 01:38 PM) Yo...   Aug 24 2010, 12:19 PM
- - Ascalaphus   This discussion is going nowhere. Everything's...   Aug 24 2010, 12:04 PM
- - nezumi   To answer Cain's most recent question... I do...   Aug 24 2010, 01:01 PM
- - deek   I've usually found that a rules change, which ...   Aug 24 2010, 01:26 PM
- - KnightRunner   Just my .02 Nuyen....... 1. I hate screens. They ...   Aug 24 2010, 02:11 PM
|- - nezumi   QUOTE (KnightRunner @ Aug 24 2010, 10:11 ...   Aug 24 2010, 04:03 PM
|- - Grinder   QUOTE (KnightRunner @ Aug 24 2010, 04:11 ...   Aug 24 2010, 04:32 PM
||- - suoq   QUOTE (Grinder @ Aug 24 2010, 11:32 AM) I...   Aug 24 2010, 04:48 PM
||- - tete   QUOTE (suoq @ Aug 24 2010, 04:48 PM) If I...   Aug 24 2010, 05:21 PM
|- - Kruger   QUOTE (KnightRunner @ Aug 24 2010, 07:11 ...   Aug 24 2010, 04:45 PM
- - Yerameyahu   3.25: Plenty of rolls are intended to function sec...   Aug 24 2010, 02:38 PM
|- - Doc Chase   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 24 2010, 03:38 PM...   Aug 24 2010, 02:40 PM
||- - KnightRunner   QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Aug 24 2010, 09:40 AM)...   Aug 24 2010, 02:59 PM
||- - Doc Chase   QUOTE (KnightRunner @ Aug 24 2010, 02:59 ...   Aug 24 2010, 03:29 PM
||- - suoq   QUOTE (KnightRunner @ Aug 24 2010, 08:59 ...   Aug 24 2010, 03:32 PM
|- - KnightRunner   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 24 2010, 09:38 AM...   Aug 24 2010, 02:49 PM
- - deek   I do believe that fudging dice is cheating...but I...   Aug 24 2010, 02:45 PM
- - nezumi   Well... What sort of a game do you want? If you wa...   Aug 24 2010, 08:15 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE I ask because in a public game I don't k...   Aug 25 2010, 02:24 AM
- - Redcrow   I also hate GM screens and never use them. Instea...   Aug 25 2010, 03:22 AM
5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 15th June 2025 - 06:57 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.