 Reaction Enhancers |
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 Feb 7 2012, 09:37 AM
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#26
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jacked in  Group: Admin Posts: 5,711 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463  |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Feb 6 2012, 02:24 PM)  Aside from Drugs. Actually, no such exception. AFAIK. Bye Thanee |
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Feb 7 2012, 09:41 AM
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#27
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 5,711 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 7 2012, 10:12 AM) ...meaning that anything that indirectly increases the initiative attribute logically must be an "initiative enhancement" as well. Uhm... no? It can be seen that way, sure, but it hardly must be seen that way. Bye Thanee |
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Feb 7 2012, 09:59 AM
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#28
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 12,666 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 7 2012, 10:37 AM) Actually, no such exception. AFAIK. Bye Thanee Well, they are certainly compatible, but they still don't allow more than the usual 5 IP's i think . . -------------------- TrogCorp, Join us while it is still voluntary!
THE nsrcg.zip! isn't it a pity that common sense ain't RAW? |
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Feb 7 2012, 10:05 AM
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#29
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,489 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 7 2012, 10:41 AM) Uhm... no? Then I have to ask what is an Initiative Enhancement? Increases to REA or INT increase Initiative (the Initiative Attribute to be exact), as such they offer enhancements to Initiative.It can be seen that way, sure, but it hardly must be seen that way. Bye Thanee The other possibility is saying "Initiative Enhancement" was never properly defined, so the only thing we know to be an "Initiative Enhancement" are the Reaction Enhancers. This however makes the incompatibility rule a non-rule for WR/MBW. If there is no thing that is classified as "initiative enhancement" except reaction enhancers, the incompatibility never comes into play. For other implants/powers this rule then means that they only are incompatible with Reaction Enhancers, but can be combined with anything else. |
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Feb 7 2012, 10:45 AM
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#30
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 5,711 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 7 2012, 11:05 AM) Then I have to ask what is an Initiative Enhancement? Anything that directly influences Initiative. And Reaction Enhancers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) My main point, though, is - as you also said - that it is not 100% clear. So there is not just a single interpretation. Otherwise it would be 100% clear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Bye Thanee |
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Feb 7 2012, 10:46 AM
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#31
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 5,711 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Feb 7 2012, 10:59 AM) Well, they are certainly compatible, ... Show me the rule, then I will believe it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Bye Thanee |
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Feb 7 2012, 10:52 AM
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#32
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,489 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 7 2012, 11:45 AM) Anything that directly influences Initiative. Where does any rule restrict it to direct increases only? If that were the case AFAIK there is nothing that does that without also increasing passes. And even then there is only the spell Increase Reflexes. QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 7 2012, 11:45 AM) My main point, though, is - as you also said - that it is not clear. So there is not just a single interpretation. Otherwise it would be clear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The problem is that it actually is pretty clear, but logic does not produce the expected or wanted results. |
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Feb 7 2012, 01:01 PM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 28-September 06 Member No.: 9,490 |
Hey All,
Thanks for the help, this certainly cleared up a lot of my confusion (including my glitching the reading check on MBW). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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Feb 7 2012, 03:22 PM
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#34
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 13,168 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 7 2012, 03:52 AM) Where does any rule restrict it to direct increases only? If that were the case AFAIK there is nothing that does that without also increasing passes. And even then there is only the spell Increase Reflexes. In which case you would never be able to raise the Reaction Attribute or the Intuition Attribute with Karmna once play started, because if you did, your Wires (accelerators, etc) would cease to work. Which is an implausible conclusion. Therefore, anything that Raises the Attributes directly is not an "Initiative Enhancement" by default. I generally go with things that Increase the Initiative IP's. -------------------- Keep the Faith...
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll |
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Feb 7 2012, 03:30 PM
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#35
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,489 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 7 2012, 04:22 PM) In which case you would never be able to raise the Reaction Attribute or the Intuition Attribute with Karmna once play started, because if you did, your Wires (accelerators, etc) would cease to work. Which is an implausible conclusion. It is also a wrong conclusion. Spending Karma on REA or INT does not create an enhanced/augmented Attribute. It raises your base attributes(physical, mental and special). Reaction Enhancers, Suprathyroid glands etc. create augmented attribute ratings. Additionally the incompatibility is restricted to technology and magic. Spending Karma is neither.QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 7 2012, 04:22 PM) I generally go with things that Increase the Initiative IP's. That is a very sensible houserule and one most people probably use, but unfortunately that is not what the rules say. Not that that stops anyone from playing differently.
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Feb 7 2012, 03:45 PM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,148 Joined: 15-December 09 Member No.: 17,968 |
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 7 2012, 03:30 PM) Additionally the incompatibility is restricted to technology and magic. Spending Karma is neither. Does it always specify that? I don't believe so. You yourself asked what an 'Initiative Enhancement' is - it's not defined. You're both making the same point - RAW is unclear, RAI is not. |
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Feb 7 2012, 03:55 PM
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#37
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,489 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
sorry it depends on what implant/power you are looking at. Some limit it others don't. the point stands though that spending Karma is not an enhancement to initiative but the creation of a higher base initiative.
Actually I'm making another point. RAW is clear, but creates undesired results. |
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Feb 7 2012, 03:56 PM
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#38
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,980 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
As I've said before, one thing I would dearly love to see in future editions of SR is an actual Glossary of Defined Terms.
So many arguments could be resolved if the rules were more precise in wording. -k -------------------- I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
I play a geriatric black ops ninja wizard with laser eyes, and a pink mohawked pixie driving a human suit. I optimize ...differently. |
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Feb 7 2012, 03:57 PM
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#39
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,489 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Feb 7 2012, 04:56 PM) As I've said before, one thing I would dearly love to see in future editions of SR is an actual Glossary of Defined Terms. QFTSo many arguments could be resolved if the rules were more precise in wording. |
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Feb 7 2012, 06:48 PM
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#40
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,237 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Feb 7 2012, 10:56 AM) As I've said before, one thing I would dearly love to see in future editions of SR is an actual Glossary of Defined Terms. So many arguments could be resolved if the rules were more precise in wording. -k Damn skippy!! |
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