 A question about adepts, see above |
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 Aug 28 2007, 11:40 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 24-August 07 Member No.: 12,851  |
Okay, this is probably a dumb question with a really obvious answer, but I looked in the book repeatedly, and I didn't see it, so I had to ask. Does anyone know what the level cap for critical strike is based on? I keep thinking it's magic, which makes sense to me, but I had someone tell me it was based on unarmed skill rating, which didn't sound right at all. So if any of you wise Shadowrun gurus out there with maybe a page number or a convincing argument, I would greatly appreciate it
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Aug 28 2007, 11:41 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,862 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Your maximum adept power rating is equal to your Magic attribute. It's detailed in the Adept Powers section on page 187. Dunno where your friend got the idea that it was directly linked to the Unarmed Combat rating.
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Aug 28 2007, 11:42 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
The maximum ratings for any adept power is based on magic. Some have additional maximums, such as an attribute or skill. Dos'nt apply to CS, though.
-------------------- You met me at a very strange time in my life.
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Aug 28 2007, 11:45 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
meant to say "based on an attribute or skill".
-------------------- You met me at a very strange time in my life.
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Aug 28 2007, 11:56 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 24-August 07 Member No.: 12,851 |
Thanks, I don't know where he got that idea either, I just thought I'd post it anyway. If you w anted to use this thread for general adept questions, I don't mind, since I'll probably have more later. I've played Shadowrun before, but this is my first time as an adept, you see.
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Aug 29 2007, 12:41 AM
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#6
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The back-up plan Group: Admin Posts: 8,047 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Arix--Welcome to DSF. It appears that the question was answered above so I'll put my stick away and drag this horse to another thread. If you have questions, feel free to throw them into a post or if you have a few extra minutes, the search function of the site does a pretty good job. (Though I'll warn you we here at DSF rant regularly on a variety of subjects, so you may need to skim the results a bit.)
Good luck! |
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Aug 29 2007, 01:07 AM
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#7
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,648 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...should be based on 1/2 Strength or 1/2 Unarmed Combat (rounded up). Strength of 1 + Critical strike 6 gives an unarmed DV equal to a sporting rifle... ...add a level or two of penetrating strike... ...seems broken to me. -------------------- ...Hide a sword with a smile.
Forsaken Daughter is watching you... ...I have two guns, one for each of you - Doc Holliday Drop Bears do not "tweet" |
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Aug 29 2007, 01:11 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Well, the developers wanted adepts to pack some punch ... sorry couldn't resist.
-------------------- Former developer, former freelancer, runner.
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Aug 29 2007, 01:34 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
Why won't Distance Strike work over the internet to attack punsters?
-------------------- Sometimes life hands you a lemon, and when you try to make lemonade out of it the fucking juice machine explodes and embeds a half kilo of hot shrapnel in your face.
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Aug 29 2007, 01:38 AM
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#10
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,648 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...Synner? *Ouch* :grinbig:
-------------------- ...Hide a sword with a smile.
Forsaken Daughter is watching you... ...I have two guns, one for each of you - Doc Holliday Drop Bears do not "tweet" |
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Aug 29 2007, 01:58 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,194 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Yeah, but it's being resisted with Reaction plus skill or dodge, rather than just Reaction, which makes a difference. Plus, someone with that build has hard-maxed Magic and spent a fourth of it on one power, but will be in trouble if anyone ever succeeds in using subdual combat against them. It's not an optimal build, but it might be a fun one for someone who likes playing a skinny little guy who can knock trolls around. |
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Aug 29 2007, 02:02 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
Also, what with Augmentation being released, we adepts must contend with juiced up cyber/bio street sams.
-------------------- You met me at a very strange time in my life.
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Aug 29 2007, 02:15 AM
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#13
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ghostrider Group: Former Moderators Posts: 4,167 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Had a player go the silent, no movement required distance strike killing hands D adept route in a 3e game once. I thought it was horribly broken...until the first time he took a shotgun blast to the chest point blank and unarmored.
-------------------- QUOTE (Screaming Eagle) But when you took up this job did you plan to live forever or live awesome? |
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Aug 29 2007, 02:33 AM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 24-August 07 Member No.: 12,851 |
my char's DV is 6, I don't know what penetrating strike is though
but his strength lies in things that aren't neccesarily combat related |
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Aug 29 2007, 02:45 AM
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#15
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Freelance Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,801 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
You're right. It's totally weird that an adept that devotes nearly half their magical prowess specifically towards hitting hard should...y'know...hit hard. That's broken! :please: It's not that Critical Strike is potent, it's that the balls got cut right off pretty much every other unarmed combat attack in SR4, so it seems ridiculous by comparison. -------------------- |
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Aug 29 2007, 03:16 AM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,493 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
also, even if it is a lot of damage... it's 1/IP, compared to 2/IP for most guns. not to mention range.
so sure, you might do as much damage as a sporting rifle... but the guy with the sporting rifle can do that damage from a lot further away, can do it twice a round, can upgrade that damage cheaply (a few hundred nuyen is insignificant compared to magic 6) and didn't spend even remotely near what the adept spent to do the damage. besides, critical strike is magic. it doesn't have to make sense =P |
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Aug 29 2007, 06:34 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 115 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,415 |
Hand-to-hand combat by default is totally rubbish. You attack half as fast, and the defender gets twice as many dice pools to defend with. Even WITH critical strike, I'd say someone who specialises in ranged combat is still head-and-shoulders above someone who specialises in hand-to-hand combat, given the variety of combat situations a shadowrunner will encounter.
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Aug 29 2007, 03:28 PM
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#18
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,648 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...effectively one level of Critical Strike is giving you +2 to strength per level for the purpose of all unarmed combat.
That's... ...20 BPs in attributes if purchased as the Attribute ...2 PP in Improved Attribute: Strength ...2 hits on a Boosted Attribute - Strength power test (which also has a drain factor as well) ...for .25 PP/per +1. Now if anyone here would be first to defend the Physical/Combat Adept concept it is myself as it is my favourite archetype. However I feel this power, like Kinesics, is just a bit too much without some sort of control. Improved Ability [skill] is capped by 1/2 skill rating. I don't see why powers such as Kinesics & Critical Strike shouldn't be capped by 1/2 Attribute to bring them more under control. @Arix: Penetrating Strike is in [/i]Street Magic[/i], also .25 PP per -2AP up to a maximum of -3AP It's not so much the cost of the power that actually bothers me as it is the idea of having that 45kg STR 1 weakling nebbish slapping trolls upside the head. -------------------- ...Hide a sword with a smile.
Forsaken Daughter is watching you... ...I have two guns, one for each of you - Doc Holliday Drop Bears do not "tweet" |
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Aug 29 2007, 04:36 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 12-October 03 From: Germany, Regensburg Member No.: 5,709 |
But that's not totaly unrealistic, isn't it? It's easier to jump backwards from a knife than jumping away from a bullet... Killing someone with a gun is - imho - easier than killing him with a sword. For a sword you must get near, etc. Killing an unexpecting target with a melee weapon is of course easier... |
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Aug 29 2007, 05:09 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Oh noes, the ranged vs melee permutation again. Here I'll save you all a bunch of time.
Do both, carry a gun and slice em up when you get close. Killing hands + critical strike + weapon focus + boost attribute power (Strength and agility). Try and boost both right before combat begins, then make those sammies cry. -------------------- "Information is not knowledge."
-Albert Einstein "Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like i'm taking crazy pills." -Mugatu, zoolander |
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Aug 29 2007, 06:00 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
Or be the cyber-adept. Best of both worlds. Then you can make that ultimate mundane climber look like a chump with your wall running and bonus dice to climb tests. That is, of course, after you've initiated to get back your magic after blowing it all on your cyber.
-------------------- Only two kinds of people go outside without a beard. Women and boys, and I am neither.
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Aug 29 2007, 06:53 PM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,862 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
I think much of the drama about unarmed combat and critical strike is unwarranted. One important point people keep glossing over: Unarmed Combat is not just an offensive skill; it's a defensive one as well. It's always available, works against all types of melee (well, provided your limbs are still attached :cyber:) and it's the ONLY defensive skill that can be used to break free of lock in subdual combat. Subdual combat is very much worth mentioning here; it means that Unarmed Combat comes with an option to deal Stun equal to strength built right in. Even a "wussy" strength 5 troll has a decent chance of utterly dominating someone with only 3s in body and strength via subdual combat (provided the troll isn't also outclassed in skill and agility, of course). It's part of why I think Critical Strike is a very vanilla power at the medium to low ratings, to tell you the truth. It's a purely short range offensive power in a world filled with firearms and it doesn't even outperform shockhands and monowhips unless you have a decent strength score to back it up. |
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Aug 29 2007, 07:16 PM
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#23
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,648 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...oh I agree, but I've rarely if ever seen anybody actually use subdual combat in the games I've been in.
The other thing is that same nebbish can have a 5 or 6 in unarmed combat even more if specialised in a fighting style and take up to his Skill/2 in levels of Improved Combat Ability. Since Agility comes into play instead of Strength for Unarmed DP, it is quite conceivable our milktoast pugilist can come up with a pool of 16 dice. That is 5 hits on average increasing the DV to 12. ...with a strength of 1. ...be careful who you kick sand in the face of at the beach... -------------------- ...Hide a sword with a smile.
Forsaken Daughter is watching you... ...I have two guns, one for each of you - Doc Holliday Drop Bears do not "tweet" |
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Aug 29 2007, 07:26 PM
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#24
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,862 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
It's rather debateable whether you can take Improved Ability above rating 3 even with specializations. The book is really quite vague about it; on the one hand, it says specializations add dice to the test. But then right in the next paragraph it refer's to the specializations rating. I don't have a problem with what you're talking about regardless, however. It means that a frail but crazy skilled martial arts master with can kick some major ass provided he avoids making it into a contest of pure strength. The idea's stupid IRL, but add in magic and I'm willing to buy it.
Anyway though, people who don't at least consider using subdual combat are plain crazy. Maybe you should try convincing the GM that any fancy pants strength 1 uber samurais in the group should get some thorough wedgies from a playful strength 9 Troll Judo instructor. |
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Aug 29 2007, 07:33 PM
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#25
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,648 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I never buy anything if the only defence for it is "it's magic".
-------------------- ...Hide a sword with a smile.
Forsaken Daughter is watching you... ...I have two guns, one for each of you - Doc Holliday Drop Bears do not "tweet" |
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