 Lots of Hacker/Technomancer Questions |
  |
 Sep 19 2005, 05:20 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 4-February 03 Member No.: 4,007  |
OK, I’ve read the wireless world chapter a few times and I still have lots of questions. Perhaps you guys can help with these:
Data Trails 1. They mention services are available that can strip ID data for secure data trails and messaging. Just what does that do in game terms? 2. They give an action you can do to hide your data trail… but only once a trace is running. Is there anything you can do beforehand to confuse your data trail? 3. Since every commlink has a unique access ID that is used for tracking data trails. Just what is the access ID of a technomancer? Jacking Out 4. If attacked by Black IC in VR mode you can’t jack out without suffering dump-shock or by beating the IC in a test. However, what is to stop the user from using a free action to switch to AR mode, then using a free action to jack out (no dumpshock in AR mode)? 5. Since blackhammer and blackout only work on targets in VR mode… why can’t you just use a free action to switch to AR mode then finish the fight there? Yeah, you loose some actions… but you’re immune to them now. Agents 6. Agents loaded into your persona automatically move with you? They don’t have to do access/stealth tests? 7. Agents loading into your persona… count as one program? And their payload has to consist of programs you also are running? But these are shared between you and any agents in your persona? Data Jacks 8. I don’t see any rules anywhere for penalties/differences between ‘trode users and those with datajacks. Does this mean that trode users can be 100% as effective as those with datajacks? Augmented Reality 9. Image/sound/touch links allow AR AROs to be perceived… but so does a sim module. Does the sim module replace the links, or is it required in addition too? Technomancers 10. Can he function as an active PAN? Does he respond properly in areas that require the broadcast of selected ID info? 11. Does a technomancer show up on a search for wireless nodes? 12. How would a technomancer get legal access ID? 13. What about a passkeys (the things you plug into a commlink to get access)? Does he need a commlink just to do this? Or does he just need to be carrying the passkey? 14. Just what AR functions can a Technomancer simulate automatically? What about perceiving/manipulating AROs (for example, a tactical map from a teammate)? 15. Just what commlink functions? Can he place/receive calls? What about video calls? 16. Can he read/manipulate RFIDs? 17. Just what control does a technomancer have over his PAN? Does he need a “command” complex form to coordinate his other toys? 18. It says the technomancer versions of computer, data search, etc. are “vastly different” from the normal skills. Does that mean that a technomancer can’t use his version of these skills to operate in the matrix in a normal way (such as programming agents, etc.)? Thanks, Pel |
 |
 
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 05:37 AM
Post
#2
|
|||||||||
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
SR4, p 231:
Note that AR is considered "offline" or logging off. SR4, p229, under "Switching Modes", lists "augmented reality (or offline mode)". Thus, you can't switch modes once under attack by Black Hammer, Blackout or Black IC (which is simply IC that has those programs loaded).
Pretty much. I'm not seeing any noticable differences between the two methods (other than the physical stuff, like messing with a trode net versus just plugging a wire to your head). If someone else finds something that I'm missing, then I'd definitely like to know.
My understanding is that touch links and their like are required in order to experience such senses in AR. Sim Modules put you in VR, and override your normal senses. I suppose you can remove the RAS override (p318), but accessing AR information using simsense while moving physically is quite overwhelming under those conditions (apply a -4 to -6 pool modifier). Basically, Sim Modules = VR and simsense and apply penalties to real world actions, Touch/Image/Hearing Links = AR and don't necessarily apply a penalty to real world actions.
|
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:21 AM
Post
#3
|
|||||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 7,736 |
Yes. Until you load them up to a node and operate independently.
When you upload an agent to a node you can upload some progs to the agents memory . That´s it. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 01:31 PM
Post
#4
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
10.) A technomancer is virtualy a living comlink so yes he would have different modes. As for the second part, theres no actual talk in the BBB unfortunately but assuming he has some storage he could give his sin and such and he can always spoof his acessID. 11.) Yes just like any other comlink, just depends on what mode he opperates in i believe. 12.) Physicaly can't. The accessID is essentaily the equivilent of the modern day MAC adress. Its hardware encoded so he'd have to spoof his or use a commlink (which is just silly since the test to spoof a acessID is not that difficult) 13.) Not sure, to me a technomancer prety much needs a commlink, if only just to jack into wired networks and for storage, so no real reason not to have atleast a low end one for this purpose as well. 14.) Anythig anyone else could jacked into their commlink, except they don't need a image link or anything I don't believe. 15.) All. Except he doesn't have organic memory so if he was recording the call he'd have to put it somewhere else. 16.) I'm not sure what you're getting at there. 17.) The technomancer acts like a commlink. If you need a command program on your commlink to do something normaly, you'd need the form if you were a technomancer. 18.) That is correct. Those skills allow him to manipulate the matrix in the same way as a hacker they just take a different route to do it. A technomancer wouldn't program a agent anyways since he can summon up sprites. The idea of creating a agent would just be completely backwards to a technomancer not to mention silly. Now for the disclaimer. I could very very much be wrong here, if so someone please correct me :) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 19 2005, 02:40 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I have a diffent take on the technomancers than Shadow Prophet. As I see it, although technomancers are said to have an "organic commlink" in their head, they do not act like one, exactly. It is, the way I see it, mearly a metaphor. Technomancers are (again, in my opinion) strange and mysterious to anyone other than another resonance being. Other resonance beings are the only ones who can see their matrix signature. They can not be hacked, but off course the devices in their PAN can be. They will by default appear very strange to other matrix users, their living persona is nothing like ordinary code and they do not transmit like an ordinary commlink. All this has to be faked. In my opinion the easiest way to do this is to simply run an ordinary commlink for transmiting SIN and appearing normal.
As for appearing normal to other hackers in the matrix, I will rule that to be somewhat difficult. Technomancers are litteraly ghosts in the machine. They do not have an access ID that can be traced (although their activities can be, there´s no way for a non-resonance being to identify the source of the activities), and because of that they´re going to have to put up with being eyecatching when they choose to make their presence known. In general I view technomancers as being able to sense, percieve and manipulate the matrix with absolutely natural ease, but they don´t do it in a way remotely close to the way others do it. When a node logs their activities, those logs are unreadable gibberish. If the node does not premit non-valid access-ID´s they would have to spoof one. Unless the technomancer has a wireless network of devices on their person, they will not turn up on other network´s scans, or at least wont be identifiable. If they wanted to have a commcode (without getting a commlink of their own) they would have to register with an outside service then "listen" to the number they give that service. I don´t have any page references for this, because nothing is said to either confirm or deny it. We´ll have to wait for "Unwired" to get the canon answer. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 02:57 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
Actualy I'm inclined to agree with your assesment there mintcar. I was going for more how they function rules wise but :)
This is my main and really only real problem concerning SR4. Theres simply not enough info about technomancers in it. They manage to introduce the concept but you're still left with only that, a concept of what they may or may not be, and a complete lack of actual rules for them and how they actualy operate. And I'd hope for unwired to come out soon but well considering sr4 has still yet to hit book shelves I'm not holding any hopes. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 03:12 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
There is an obvious lack of information, damn right. I think the rules for matrix signatures point to the fact that they leave tracks unreadable to ordinary users, but it doesn´t say that. Just that they leave a track readable by other resonance beings (instead/also?).
But I´m not much bothered by it. I think the matrix rules are great in that they are open to interpretation and can be easily adapted. I´m going with a "ghost in the machine" interpretation of technomancers myself. Anyone who sees them or traces of them, and knows a thing or two about computers is going to go "WTF is that!!??", with all the perks and drawbacks that comes with it. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 03:20 PM
Post
#8
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
|
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 05:16 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
We REALLY need the developpers clarifications about all this...
I'm really surprised that Synner, Bull or Adam hadn't answered our posts yet... Is there a reason why? |
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 05:52 PM
Post
#10
|
|||||||
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Yes blakkie... we knew that. But do technomancers leave other traces as well? Traces that CAN be read by ordinary hackers, a data trace that is? That´s the question. It doesn´t say if they leave this signature instead of —or in addition to the normal data trail, but I´m going with the first. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 05:56 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Technomancers
10. Can he function as an active PAN? Does he respond properly in areas that require the broadcast of selected ID info? The technomancer can act as an Active PAN. If the Technomancer chose to broadcast his SIN on UCAS soil, then he could. The trick here would be what happens when the system realizes that he doesn't have a Device ID...(Note: A technomancer could quite easily pick up a base line, cheap commlink and use it to bypass this problem.) 11. Does a technomancer show up on a search for wireless nodes? Because the TM has an organic COmmlink they will show up if they are in an Active mode. The Section on Matrix Signatures, I see as a similar thing to an Astral Signature. Because the TM can ghost through the machine and not register on most systems, this is a way for other TMs to track and identify each other. 12. How would a technomancer get legal access ID? Either purchase a Commlink and Spoof their own signal to match, or, it may be possible to register your TM status similar to the way that Awakened people can register and get permits for their spells. (This of course could be tricky and have several hidden drawbacks) 13. What about a passkeys (the things you plug into a commlink to get access)? Does he need a commlink just to do this? Or does he just need to be carrying the passkey? The TM has a wireless transmitter built inside his brain (The process could be described as having all the chemicals bonded in a similar way to nanites building a nanowire transceiver). That said, he could connect wirelessly tothe passkey and pass the info on to the system or slot it into a commlink if he felt like a retro experience. 14. Just what AR functions can a Technomancer simulate automatically? What about perceiving/manipulating AROs (for example, a tactical map from a teammate)? IMO, because the Living Persona is so closely tied to the TM's own mind, his senses are probably overlaid by AR whenever he wants them to be. Think of it as a full sim-link. 15. Just what commlink functions? Can he place/receive calls? What about video calls? With a full sense-link and digital overlay in his vision, he should be able to receive Video calls, sending one out would require an external camera that he could wirelessly transmit the signal from. I'm going to respectfully borrow the idea posted earlier about buying a phone number and listening to that frequency as it seems to be the best option. (IMO when buying a commlink, you can enter into a telecommunication contract at that time or just buy the hardware similar to today's markets.) 16. Can he read/manipulate RFIDs? The same way that a Hacker can. Any programs necessary would call for the appropriate complex forms... 17. Just what control does a technomancer have over his PAN? Does he need a “command” complex form to coordinate his other toys? The TM has the same amount of control over his PAN as a Hacker has over his commlink, it has a System and Firewall rating. If there's a need for a Command program than there will be the same need for a Command complex form. 18. It says the technomancer versions of computer, data search, etc. are “vastly different” from the normal skills. Does that mean that a technomancer can’t use his version of these skills to operate in the matrix in a normal way (such as programming agents, etc.)? To simplify it, hackers speak DOS, TMs speak Unix. A TM cannot teach a hacker to compile Sprites because the Hacker doens't have Resonance. In the same way, if a TM wanted to learn how to program a frame, he'd have to learn a completely new set of Computer skills. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:06 PM
Post
#12
|
|||
|
The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
If we consider the Matrix Signature to be similar to an Astral signature (the wording is almost identical), then the signature would be in addition to. If the TM chose to run in Active mode, then he would interact with the systems the same way that a hacker would except that there is not a Device ID to tag. If the TM transmits his info, then that info would be available similar to dropping a calling card on the floor. The Matrix Signature only gets left when using Resonance and it is based on either the rating of the Complex form/Sprite or the Resonance rating of the TM. IMO, this is the mark left behind each time the TM makes an active test in the system, rather than just being there. If the TM wanted to ghost through and be untraceable, he'd have to take the extra time to clean up each different signature the same way a mage wipes his astral signatures after blasting the guards away with a manaball. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:18 PM
Post
#13
|
|||||||||||
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Just going to comment on some of McQuillan´s responses. I agree on most accounts.
Remember that a technomancer lacks storage space. A SIN could only be broadcast if he had it stored somewere accessable. Not a real problem, but worth a note.
The first option is something I was thinking of myself, and I think it would certainly work. Good one, just buy some cheap crap, read the Access ID, and scrap it. :)
I´m planning on describing it a bit differently than normal AR. The technomancer precieves the wireless signals as she would any other input from her senses. In a seamless way her visual, tactile and audio changes from one thing to another as her interest shifts focus, but it´s all there in the background at the same time. That´s were the +2 perception dice comes from.
Your welcome ;)
I agree with that. Am I right when I take it you agree that technomancers lack a tracable Access ID though? That´s all I´m saying. |
||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:27 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 293 Joined: 27-January 03 From: Kentucky, USA Member No.: 3,958 |
Never mind, mispost.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:28 PM
Post
#15
|
|||||||||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 4-February 03 Member No.: 4,007 |
Does this imply that trace does not work against a technomancer unless its done by another technomancer or a sprite? Pel |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:32 PM
Post
#16
|
|||||||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I took the statement about nodes simply not accepting transmissions without IDs to mean that yes, they also leave IDs (and thus should be constantly spoofing). *shrug* I see no direct suggestion otherwise in the BBB. So from a canon sense it is there. Now if you want to house rule otherwise that Technomancers somehow bypass the path that commlinks, well you are leaving the beaten path and making what appear to be non-canon assumptions about how Technomancers do do that voodoo. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:34 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Pelaka: I´m arguing that technomancers do not normaly leave an Access ID that can be understood by ordinary matrix users, and so can not be traced by triangulating their position using that number.
As far as I know this is nowere in the book though. I also claim that technomancers are by default unreadable by normal scan programs. On the flip side they would be immediatly recognised as something wierd if they didn´t try to fake an Access ID and transmit some kind of user info in public places. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:35 PM
Post
#18
|
|||
|
The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Because the TM doesn't have an actual Commlink, I would agree that thedy don't have an Access ID. One solution to this could be if another TM verifies the Signature, it may be possible to run a trace with the modifier for Wireless connection and narrow down the physical location of the TM to within 50m. This would only be possible if the TM is still "On-line" |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:44 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Blakkie: It may well be that they are treated as spoofing all the time. But I find it hard to believe that all nodes check the validity of all Access ID. The way I see it, technomancers should be able to access some parts of the matrix at least without spoofing. In those cases I imagine they will transmit some kind of wierd, organic resonance code in place of the Access ID. *shrug* Your assumption about the constant spoofing is an equally non-canon assumption.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 06:58 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Using an ID that is not "understandable" is effectively spoofing. It doesn't matter if normal hackers, agents, etc. can understand the Techno's ID or not, it is a matter of whether they use the same ID continuously from node to node. Now if the ID the Techno spoofs rotates on some pattern, but that pattern [currently] is only discernable from a random ID by others that are in tune with the pattern (ie. other Technos and sprites) that could help explain that. So then what you really are saying is that Technos are always spoofing. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 19 2005, 07:06 PM
Post
#21
|
|||||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Yes, the only strictly canon is that if they don't spoof they leave a data trail like any other hacker.
*shrug* Not all nodes, just "most". Which is pretty much good enough to be the same since non-Techno hackers can drop their IDs entirely at those minority of nodes too.
|
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Sep 19 2005, 07:08 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Maybe. The point is that if technomancers are naturally able to access the matrix they should not have to consciously emulate a commlink to do so. This is how I want it to be mind you, I don´t really know. Anyway; I figure the naturally "spoofed" signal that technomancers transmit is not something normal matrix users can understand or that can even be explained to them by programs, but something that the matrix or technology understands in some new, mysterious way.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 07:43 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 4-February 03 Member No.: 4,007 |
The problem is that if they don't automatically provide some sort of access ID it makes it way too easy for corps to track down/identify technomancers by searching for transactions with corrupted access IDs. Even if they don't understand what is there, any corruption of the access ID links should be able to raise real-time alerts.
Pel |
|
|
|
|
Sep 19 2005, 07:59 PM
Post
#24
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
Just spoof the accessID. And with hackers and whatnot all over the place doing things like this...I'm going to guess that tracking down a technomancers accessID which he can change at will and completely drop, is going to be just about impossible. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 19 2005, 08:00 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
It´d still be possible for technomancers to emulate real Access ID´s with a spoof complex form. <a bit late with my post>
(Maybe it´s easier to assume that technomancers don´t have any ID at all without spoof like blakkie and McQuillan seem to be suggesting. I´m just talking about the things that popped into my head when I read about it. One thing that seems certain though, is that technomancers are NOT born with a neat, by-the-books, authorized access-ID... And they are communicating with nodes in some way. Their presence should be logged in some way, even if they´re not hiding behind a spoofed ID... hm. This doesn´t really matter, does it? Point is either they spoof or they´re unreadable/invisible, and mostly they spoof to get in to places.) |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 25th April 2024 - 11:33 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.