 System Failure re: Poland [spoiler], I'm waiting on the paper |
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 Sep 19 2005, 04:21 PM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263  |
I don't have a need for a separate PDF file, so i'm waiting on the hardcopy. However in the meantime i do have one question. I'm not looking for all the gritty details, but could someone give me a quick idea of who/what/why of the new government of Poland and who externally backed the revolution?
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Sep 19 2005, 04:35 PM
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#2
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
Guys, keep the System Failure threads in the general SR Forum.
The Shadowrun 4 forum is specifically for Shadowrun 4 discussion. Bull |
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Sep 19 2005, 06:00 PM
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#3
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Waste your own money
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Sep 19 2005, 06:03 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
Bitter much?
Some rebel general dude. Corp sponsored. heis fellow rebels dont like that. Hope thats both vague and specific enough for ya. |
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Sep 19 2005, 06:13 PM
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#5
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
So bad? |
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Sep 19 2005, 06:19 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
nope, the book is sexcelent
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Sep 19 2005, 06:24 PM
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#7
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Elf porn? Yeah. :D
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Sep 19 2005, 08:11 PM
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#8
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I think it is. |
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Sep 19 2005, 08:13 PM
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#9
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Why that?
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Sep 19 2005, 08:22 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
Terribly American and Hollywoodian movie-style with a drekload of horrible clichés.
There is also a awful lot of typo errors. Basically, since the book is for "ending" SR3, it's worth almost nothing for GMing SR except if you want to "end" your campaign. |
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Sep 19 2005, 08:24 PM
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#11
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
So What I hear in this is that the Sovies either got their hoops booted out of my homeland or pulled out because of the situation in Yakut (SoA). This would basically outdate the Divided Poland entry in SoE.
So my next question, What about the Balkans? Have things changed there too or is this region still a mercenary free for all? |
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Sep 19 2005, 08:32 PM
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#12
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
This reminds me of someone telling me he was terrified of reading the Tir Tairngire chapter because he hasd a character so heavily invested in the goings-on there. I told him to relax, since there's only one sentence about anything that happened in TT surrounded by a horribly non-sensical plot hook.
Unless you're really interested in Poland or Tsimshian, there's really nothing in the book about the fallout, and even if you are, I'm sure as hell not going to give out any more spoilers than I already have. Just once I'd like to see a SR plot that wasn't a poor rip- off of a bad movie, bad novel, or bad anime. The book can be used to have a team of runners be pawns for various actors, but I don't see why unless it's to kill time, or you have a burning desire to role-play the Brainscan blackout ... again. I cannot even begin to describe how poorly edited and written some of this book is. There are typoes, there are sentence fragments, there are things that just trail off. It's pathetic. They don't mention which cities are EMP bombed, or even targeted, for several pages into the chapter that specifically relates to them, and they spend more space on a fictional character asking why nukes don't work than in the whole bomb plot, because it's not like your PCs are going to stop them. The closest a PC team might get to acting is during the Crash itself, but if you've seen references to the WMDs in the book, you may as well piss on your character sheets as try and act because your PCs will probably die horrible deaths before they know what hits them. The specific part of the book I was looking forward to was less than worthless, and it was poorly-written (Oh, look, another overly verbose James Bond-style villian explaining the plot before they kill the protagonist. Original! Clever! Yeah, Synner, I'm the one running James Bond espionage. Sure, that's it.) and devoid of even the slightest amount of thought, logic, or attention to detail. Apparently every major country in North America was involved in the coup simultaneously, but there's barely any explanation (UCAS in chaos? Who'd have thought?) of what happened. It's like they didn't even bother to think about what they were doing when they did it. The sum total of the fallout is, like, a paragraph or two. It's shit. It's shitting on the customers, too. I'd have been better off smashing my balls with a claw hammer. You'd think that at some point I'd have learned my lesson after the last year or so. The only good thing about it was that it gave me an opportunity to have complete discretion to write a 16 page story about the assassination attempt and disappearance of Nadja Daviar without worrying about having to wade through more of the excrement Fanpro saw fit to dump on its customers. |
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Sep 19 2005, 09:28 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
Wow... I thought that I was the only one thinking the same thing... (see my previous post) ... |
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Sep 19 2005, 09:59 PM
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#14
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Your post lacked panache.
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Sep 19 2005, 10:32 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
lol... True... ^_^ English is not my main language and I often lack words to express what I think. |
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Sep 19 2005, 10:37 PM
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#16
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Duly noted.
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Sep 19 2005, 11:21 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
Well, for what its worth, I thought the book was great. Although I do agree that the fallout chapter spent far too much time on Poland and Tsimshian and not nearly enough on NA. Personaly I would have loved to have seen a book the size of SF solely on the revolution.
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Sep 20 2005, 01:23 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
There were alot of important information missing in SF - mainly information on the aftereffects (which, lo and behold, are conveniently missing from SR4 too... we have 5 years of status quo 'clean-up' that somehow radically alters the entire society without really changing much as far as countries or politics go)
We do get lots of hints and new threads though, which should all play out over those 5 years... That said, there is alot of good stuff in SF too - I thought alot of the fiction was good, and there are alot of plot-hooks where the PCs can make a difference, albeit a small one. There are opportunities or street-level campaigns, as well as for higher-end runners, and for top-of-the-line runners. I was (am?) actually tempted to make a separate, high-powered short campaign based in europe... |
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Sep 20 2005, 02:49 AM
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#19
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
I don't think either of your posts had any panache, just a lot of adjectives and extreme nouns thrown together in a subjectively pleasing manner. Just "talking to hear yourself talk", so to speak. I thought I was reading a filibuster. When the two of you are done patting yourselves on the back for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion, can you step aside so that others can talk about the topic at hand?
At any rate, Poland is given a relatively large section in System Failure. You'll be pleased when you get it, if you are all about the Poland plot. |
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Sep 20 2005, 05:36 AM
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#20
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I wouldn't say that either of them had panache, but from what I've read thus far the criticisms may be more justified than you're giving credit for.
~J |
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Sep 20 2005, 07:03 AM
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#21
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I'm going to assume you didn't actually read my post, because it's more informative than yours. |
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Sep 20 2005, 01:17 PM
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#22
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
may i say:
stop complaining and start writing. kinda like the rpg version of the old open source mantra: show me the code. :silly: |
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Sep 20 2005, 02:48 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Er, not really. :( |
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Sep 20 2005, 04:22 PM
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#24
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Why? ~J |
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Sep 20 2005, 06:36 PM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
I really shouldn't but I can't resist...
The events regarding the resolution of the Polish Civil War are as messy as expected for anyone who's followed that storyline through SoE, SOTA:64 and SoA. As presented in SoE the situation was never going to be sustainable in the long term (for either side) even though events in SOTA:64 delayed resolution and particualrly after SoA brought to light a change in Russian priorities. All in all it takes about 2 and a half years since the opening shots of the Civil War and the uneasy situation left at the end of System Failure.
Yep, in the grand tradition of Bug City... However, personally I don't see any parallels between the main tracks in the book and any known movie/game/novel/anime plot,but maybe you could clarify?
The why should be obvious. Unlike previous event books such as Bug City or Year of the Comet, System Failure is designed to let characters take active part in the evolving storylines and play small but sometimes decisive roles. Enough of the fallout of events are left open for gamemasters to tailor the consequences of their players actions as they see fit. Furthermore System Failure plays naturally into campaigns using Deus, Ex Pacis or the Network as elements. It also plays out over almost a year and a half game time which provide numerous oportunities to simply get involved. But ultimately like Blood in the Boardroom and Mob War before it it provides a framework of events that can be customized to fit just about any campaign at any level of play.
Well, as the author responsible for most of the Winternight related stuff, I take full responsability for the quality and mistakes in all the relevant material. Some things made it past the proofing process entirely through my fault and I apologize to readers who are put off by those errors.
If by "several pages" you actually mean the second page of the fiction when Steiner lists several cities then you're correct. Otherwise you'd have to look in the 3rd paragraph of the relevant Game Information section (who would have guessed?) which lists all the target sites, which EMPs detonate and which are neutralized (in canon). The outline called for a fictional lead in and that's what you got. For the record the fictional character(s) spends eight paragraphs talking about the EMP strikes to two talking about the problem with the nukes. If you're going to critique stuff harshly get your facts straight.
Unsurprisingly, I'd have to disagree there too. If characters go after any of the Jormungand nests or EMPs (the book assumes the fault-line nukes are simply out of range in the relevant timeframe) then it is because they have been briefed abou the situation and the dangers posed by the WMDs (either by a Johnson or by Shadowland's broadcast of Atropos files). Without the C5 info there's almost nothing to go on so being in the line of fire of any of the WMDs (with the possible exception of Ymir) is highly unlikely. My playtest group found three ways of circumventing or eliminating the Surtr and Ymir problems with no more than their standard street gear and skills on next to no notice. If runners aren't up to the challenge when they recieve the tip-off and still go for it then the GM should consider whether or not they should die - Winternight is pulling no punches, this is their end game afterall.
I can't speak for the author but I appreciate what he wrote and the compromises of conveying plot via fiction (and a given wordcount too). Different authors have different styles, some I like more than others. Sometimes I wonder how something could have been done differently and sometimes I'm just grateful the writer gave me as a GM enough leeway to come up with a reasonable context for the events showcased. You might not be able to overcome your bias and expectations, but I certainly will and I'm sure other people will too. I see no reason why you should like anything in the book (given your expectations going in) so I'm not surprised. Regarding your point or your reference to me in this context, I'm sorry but I'm not catching it. The scenario as presented in Tree of Liberty is IMHO easily read to fit any type of play and easily developed further assuming a GM wants players to be involved in such high-flying events. If you want to run it high-end James Bondish style espionage that's possible if the GM so wishes, or he can use the exact same material and approach it more realistically (simply by building on the level of NR infiltration of the White House staff and parts of the Secret Service and considering there might be hidden reasons for the collateral deaths - namely as a result of a schism in the ranks of the NR). Or are you refering to my exchanges with your other persona? I thought SL James was supposed to be the one that played Seattle gritty street level campaigns which had nothing to do with high-end epic White House events.
Really, care to provide a quote? From what I read every country was target to some extent. Some were simply hit harder than others.
Or it could be seen FanPro acknowledging people might not want to make the leap to 2070 immediately and leaving the plot development open ended for anyone who wants to run with it during the intervening 5 years between SF and SR4. People have an idea of how the situation looks in the end but they're pretty much free to develop it as they see fit. The same applies to several of the aftershock plots. It was decided to allow as much leeway for individual GMs to wrap things up without compromising the final outcome. Different strokes for different people.
And yet you haven't. For all your soapbox denouncements that all that FanPro has produced is crap, you still went and got System Failure and SR4 (despite your adamant claims that you wouldn't). Don't like it, don't buy it. For all its faults, and I'll be the first to admit they exist, I'm very happy with System Failure. I think turning Winternight into a viable world-threatening baddie and managing to make their world-ending gambit actually mirror their beliefs was something of a challenge and I think it came off quite nicely. |
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