How would you explain SR's "Firing Modes", A question for the bang-minded... Options

[Drain Brain]

Okay...

The Remington sports rifles in the BBB are listed as SA. The description says Bolt Action.

I'm fairly sure that there are "Pump" shotguns which are also SA.

That being the case, WHY is a revolver (admittedly single action) SS?

Does it take longer to cock the lever on a revolver than it does to work a bolt or pump a pump?

WHAT IS GOING ON?????

Also (excuse me for utilising the CC rules) why aren't there rules for adding a second barrel - if I want to make a Mad Max style 2 barrel sawn off, I can change a shotgun to break action, but I can't give it any more than 1 round. What's up with that?

[EVLTIM]

Off the top of my head , the revoler in question is a single action revlover , and does need to be cocked with each shot . For me at least with my Blackhawk I need to shif it in my hand or use the other hand to cock it .

[Drain Brain]

Fair enough, EVLTIM, but why then are bolt actions Semi-Auto like, for instance, an Ares Predator. You only need one hand for that!

If you have to prime it between each shot, then surely it should be "SS" under the shadowrun rules, neh? Or am I being :silly:?

[Fygg Nuuton]

sa means semi automatic, ss is single shot. the ares predator is a semi automatic pistol, therefore, it is SA not SS

SA shotguns are not pump-action

[EVLTIM]

I would hazard that it is a double action weapon . Meaning you pull the trigger it goes bang , and the fire arm cocks itself .
As to bolt and pump guns . Pumps are preaty easy to work with once you get it down pat , and the same can be said of a bolt action .

[Fygg Nuuton]

still, it takes longer, the rules are abstract. thats something you have to live with. also, there is no "one in the chamber" rules, although its easy to do IRL. mo headshots, no point bank etc. you need to think abstract

semi automatic and double action are, for the most part, synonomous

[Fygg Nuuton]

bolt action takes quite a while compared to just squeezing a trigger.

IIRC there are no bolt action weapons in canon

[EVLTIM]

[BitBasher]

then the fluff text is boned.. not the first time.

[Ed_209a]

I sincerely doubt BA rifles will ever completely go away. The margin is closing, but there is still an accuracy gap between BA rifles and SA rifles.

When you need the most out of one and only one shot, bolt action is what you need.

[Reaver]

I could see a single-action revolver being SS, but a double-action revolver can be fired pretty much just as rapidly as a semi-auto. :)

[Drain Brain]

As I said: even in the BBB there are bolt action rifles (see the sport rifle section).

Okay then - is there, anywhere, a SS shotgun? Hmm? I don't think so... and the BA rifles I mentioned are SA too...


Oh and Fygg - I didn't mean that a Predator should be SS... I'm not THAT dense... read it again with a pause between paragraphs and an "it" in the abstract and you'll be with me...

[EVLTIM]

[sir fwank]

drain brain, not trying to come down hard on you or anything, but why don't you just change it in "your" game. make a house rule for your group. those rifles have been SA from sr1 (or the equivalent, sr1 is weird) and i seriously don't think they will ever change. its just like the damage code for AVS, sr4 isn't going to come out and be like...oh look bolt action rifles, and a new damage code on AVS, and lets make sure everything is balanced like MBW, Enhanced Articulation, Mnemonic Enhancer, Adepts and bioware, etc etc etc...

the whole system is unbalanced, the only thing thats balanced is that everyone has the same condition monitor L-M-S-D.

again, not trying to piss you off or anything just making a general comment.

cheers.

[Drain Brain]

Fair enough, Sir F.

I'm aware of the "house rules rule" style of play and have already implemented such in my campaign, however I wanted to discuss the topic on the forums to assess the opinions of other players and GM's. The topic may also serve to bring the point to the attention of others to such an extent that they change it too.

I'm laying open my logic for the masses, as it were... :spin:

[hobgoblin]

hmm, i swear i have read that some shotguns (like the spas-12or that benelli m3. i think) are both pump action and semi auto. basicly it enables you to use normal shot or slug rounds and use semi auto and then use funny ammo like say bean bags or similar that need a lower charge or something like that cna be handeld by the pump...

as for bolt action, most probably either fluff text being written before the stats or someone have seen sports rifle and automaticly thought of the old classic hunting rifle. allso, does there not exist rifles that are bolt action when you load em and semi auto when fired? as in the bolt action feature enable you to pop the bolt back and hand load one round if you need to...

[EVLTIM]

[Ed_209a]

The bottom line to me is that SA means you can fire two controlled shots in your slice of the 3 sec turn, whether the weapon is actually a semiauto action or not.

SS means you can only fire 1 shot per action, regardless of the actual action type.

[Strobe]

[Drain Brain]

I should think that it would use rules similar to that of the Walther Palm Pistol - firing both barrels at once counts as a short burst...

[Pthgar]

[Ed_209a]

Most? Did you mean that most modern shotguns are both pump-action _and_ Semi-auto, like the Benelli M3 and the Franchi SPAS-12 & 15?

If so, I wouldn't say so. At least not in the US civillian market. In fact the Benelli and the SPAS are the only dual-mode shotguns that come to mind.

[Pthgar]

Sorry, I should have said "most advanced designs" instead of "most modern." There are some hunters who like the challenge of a slower RoF. I mean you can buy "modern" muzzle loading rifles, but I didn't mean "made recently" when I wrote "modern."