Turn to Goo, what the f**k |
Turn to Goo, what the f**k |
Sep 27 2005, 11:24 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 6-January 03 From: In front of my laptop Member No.: 3,860 |
My mage showed me this along with his interruption and I almost s**t my self. This spell turns your flesh to goo, but not your cyberware. They wonder why Sams geek the mage as quick as they can, with as much overkill as they can muster. Example: Mage sees human street sam pumped up with headware and speedware. Uses Turn to Goo force 5 takes a few boxes of stun. Walks over and scoops 200,000 of cyberware out of the goo. Releases the spell and tries to stop laughing at the now blind, death , one armed man in front of him as he walks off to pawn his bag of cyberware. I would like to know what moron thought this was a good idea. This really keeps the game balanced. Things like this need to stop popping up in the magic sections of shadowrun books so I can stop having arguments with mages. The magic sections of book should be the hardest looked at for unbalancing items. I can’t use the laws of physics to explain why this can’t be done. Common sense doesn’t apply to magic so it would really help if the editor would keep things like this out of the main book. |
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Sep 27 2005, 11:45 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 238 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,569 |
They aren't goo in the sense that you can scoop cyberware out of them. Notice that the "goo" they turn into has a barrier rating of their body + your net hits. You're still gonna have to cut them open to get their ware out, which is going to kill them.
Calypso |
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Sep 28 2005, 12:09 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 6-January 03 From: In front of my laptop Member No.: 3,860 |
I guess that is the best way you could look at it. Let me follow up with what my group do after I explain to them they can't take the cyberware out of the goo. I hit his Cybereyes, or cyber what ever, with a hamer. Goo is flexable and cyberware isn't right, and that barrier rating is just to harm the body right... |
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Sep 28 2005, 12:34 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 70 Joined: 2-September 05 Member No.: 7,673 |
It is always amazing the way some spells can be used in a manner unlike they were neccesarily intended. I can remember the fun of stopping target vehicles by turning the driver into a Saint Bernard/Mastif/Poodle/Other appropriately sized dog long enough for them to crash then let the spell drop. With turn to goo I can see people getting turned to goo and then having their arms tied in knots then letting the spell drop. |
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Sep 28 2005, 12:39 AM
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#5
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Scoop the goo up into a plastic bag, dump it out into airtight coffin filled with flesh-eating anaerobic bacteria, drop the spell. Open up the coffin in a few weeks add some flesh eating worms if there are any bits of sammie left.
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Sep 28 2005, 06:17 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
I dislike this spell. I think it does not fit to the established canon. As far as I know cyberware counts as being "natural part of the body" for the purpose of transforming its owner because he/she/it has paid for it with essence. That's why all shapechanging spells (except from turn to goo) transform the metal with the meat. In my game cyberware will be transformed to goo like the rest of the body. Period. ;)
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Sep 28 2005, 06:23 AM
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#7
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I'm not a big fan of insta-kill spells anyway, which is waht this spell amounts to. Even transform is a bit much, but hey can at least peck you when you turn them into a chicken, ot RUN AWAY! Sure oyu can blast someone into oblivion with a manabolt, but it's not "if they're affected, they're dead". I hate those. PC's loving the spell? Use it on them for a while, then out law the damn thing in your game. I think I'll just drop it form the get go.
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Sep 28 2005, 06:46 AM
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#8
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Indeed - the very existence of this spell is a can of worms in implications.
Hey, he could also fly. :grinbig: |
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Sep 28 2005, 06:54 AM
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#9
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
chickens don't fly. Their evil malevolence (not just regular malevolence mind you) simply allows them to rise form the ground a short distance. Say.. to a barn roof or a mges head for a good peckin'
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Sep 28 2005, 07:48 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
Heh. This one's actually been a part of cannon since 1st edition. Personally, I'm glad to see it back. 8) |
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Sep 28 2005, 07:55 AM
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#11
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, this is why it does not fit into SR3 or SR4 - tremendous shifts in magic paradigm. |
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Sep 28 2005, 08:14 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
I think they removed it from canon with good reason.
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Sep 28 2005, 08:31 AM
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#13
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
The drain for a decent transform spell in SR3 was devestating. I´ve had mages become very disapointed that the spell they chose was in reality no good because of the massive drain. Now it seems you only need force 1 with that spell, so the drain wont be much to worry about at all. With Turn to Goo you actually win by settling for a low force (if target has no counterspell and less than amazing Body), because that will limit your successes and thus the barrier rating of the goo.
What about setting a minimum force for spells like this? That way they are dangerous to even attempt if you have a low Magic attribute, and they become a bit more costly even for practiced magicans. A minimum force would also send a clear message to starting mages that these spells are not for beginners. |
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Sep 28 2005, 08:36 AM
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#14
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, a Force 1 spell usually is a good example on the application of the rule for Buying Hits:
For both the caster and the victim. |
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Sep 28 2005, 09:01 AM
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#15
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Yes but with Shapechange, there is no real reason for wanting more hits. They add 1 to the attributes of the animal, but those attributes are way high already. And if you target an unprotected Body 4 person with Turn to Goo, you only need Force 2 or maybe 3 to be fairly certain of success.
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Sep 28 2005, 09:15 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
The same could be stated about Petrify, although they left that one in. Really, the two spells aren't that different in their net effect. |
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Sep 28 2005, 09:15 AM
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#17
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Considering how important Attributes are in SR4, Shapechange is quite a powerful spell on higher Force. ;)
As for TtG - indeed, Magic has become much harder to resist. |
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Sep 28 2005, 09:22 AM
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#18
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
It´s an EXTREMELY powerful spell on Force 1! That´s the point. Critter Form Shapechange to great cat= B 6 A 5 R 4 S 5, 2 Initiative passes! all this at force 1 and for 2 boxes of drain.
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Sep 28 2005, 09:31 AM
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#19
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, that already would provide a bonus of +1... but it's nothing compared to the Tiger-on-Steroids Force 5 produces... for a Drain of 4.
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Sep 28 2005, 09:55 AM
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#20
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
That will obviously not be the case in my game. I´m thinking 1 hit = gimped version with -1, 2 hits = ratings as they stand and all hits above that = bonus. If that´s not enough I guess a threshold based on body difference on top of that would do it. And I´m slamming a minimum 6 force on TtG (or +4 drain maybe).
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Sep 28 2005, 11:06 AM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Neither Turn To Goo nor Petrify exist in my games.
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Sep 28 2005, 11:10 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
To each their own. I've never had a problem with them. Then again, most of my players tend to shy away from magic (except adepts) :( |
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Sep 28 2005, 11:37 AM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Probably 75% of the characters I play are awakened, usually spellcasters, and by choice I have never used either of those spells (even in games that allow them). They just feel cheesy, and in my opinion, don't really fit with the rest of the magic system.
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Sep 28 2005, 12:00 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
Same goes for me, I also tend to be the resident "magic guy" of the group. Never used petrify but I do like turn to goo on occasion. :) |
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Sep 28 2005, 12:07 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Petrify has a long and honorable history, but I've always been particularly fond of ye olde Bug Barrier. Well, that and using Ignite to set their hair on fire.
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