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> Turn to Goo, what the f**k
Egon
post Sep 27 2005, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE
Turn to Goo (Physical)
Type: P • Range: LOS • Duration: S • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 2
Turn to Goo transforms living tissue into a sticky, gluelike
substance. The caster must win an Opposed Test pitting
her Magic + Spellcasting against the target’s Body (+
Counterspelling). Additionally, the spell’s Force must equal
or exceed the target’s Body. Non-living material—including
clothing, gear, and cyberware—is not affected. The target is
not conscious while under the effects of this spell, and any
damage suffered by the gooey form affects the target normally.
The goo has a barrier Armor rating equal to Body +
net hits (see Barriers, p. 157).


My mage showed me this along with his interruption and I almost s**t my self. This spell turns your flesh to goo, but not your cyberware. They wonder why Sams geek the mage as quick as they can, with as much overkill as they can muster.

Example: Mage sees human street sam pumped up with headware and speedware. Uses Turn to Goo force 5 takes a few boxes of stun. Walks over and scoops 200,000 of cyberware out of the goo. Releases the spell and tries to stop laughing at the now blind, death , one armed man in front of him as he walks off to pawn his bag of cyberware.

I would like to know what moron thought this was a good idea. This really keeps the game balanced. Things like this need to stop popping up in the magic sections of shadowrun books so I can stop having arguments with mages. The magic sections of book should be the hardest looked at for unbalancing items. I can’t use the laws of physics to explain why this can’t be done. Common sense doesn’t apply to magic so it would really help if the editor would keep things like this out of the main book.
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calypso
post Sep 27 2005, 11:45 PM
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They aren't goo in the sense that you can scoop cyberware out of them. Notice that the "goo" they turn into has a barrier rating of their body + your net hits. You're still gonna have to cut them open to get their ware out, which is going to kill them.

Calypso
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Egon
post Sep 28 2005, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE (calypso)
They aren't goo in the sense that you can scoop cyberware out of them. Notice that the "goo" they turn into has a barrier rating of their body + your net hits. You're still gonna have to cut them open to get their ware out, which is going to kill them.


I guess that is the best way you could look at it. Let me follow up with what my group do after I explain to them they can't take the cyberware out of the goo.

I hit his Cybereyes, or cyber what ever, with a hamer. Goo is flexable and cyberware isn't right, and that barrier rating is just to harm the body right...
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evil1i
post Sep 28 2005, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE (Egon)
I hit his Cybereyes, or cyber what ever, with a hammer. Goo is flexable and cyberware isn't right, and that barrier rating is just to harm the body right...

It is always amazing the way some spells can be used in a manner unlike they were neccesarily intended. I can remember the fun of stopping target vehicles by turning the driver into a Saint Bernard/Mastif/Poodle/Other appropriately sized dog long enough for them to crash then let the spell drop. With turn to goo I can see people getting turned to goo and then having their arms tied in knots then letting the spell drop.
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hyzmarca
post Sep 28 2005, 12:39 AM
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Scoop the goo up into a plastic bag, dump it out into airtight coffin filled with flesh-eating anaerobic bacteria, drop the spell. Open up the coffin in a few weeks add some flesh eating worms if there are any bits of sammie left.
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Oracle
post Sep 28 2005, 06:17 AM
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I dislike this spell. I think it does not fit to the established canon. As far as I know cyberware counts as being "natural part of the body" for the purpose of transforming its owner because he/she/it has paid for it with essence. That's why all shapechanging spells (except from turn to goo) transform the metal with the meat. In my game cyberware will be transformed to goo like the rest of the body. Period. ;)
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 28 2005, 06:23 AM
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I'm not a big fan of insta-kill spells anyway, which is waht this spell amounts to. Even transform is a bit much, but hey can at least peck you when you turn them into a chicken, ot RUN AWAY! Sure oyu can blast someone into oblivion with a manabolt, but it's not "if they're affected, they're dead". I hate those. PC's loving the spell? Use it on them for a while, then out law the damn thing in your game. I think I'll just drop it form the get go.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 28 2005, 06:46 AM
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QUOTE (Oracle)
I dislike this spell. I think it does not fit to the established canon. As far as I know cyberware counts as being "natural part of the body" for the purpose of transforming its owner because he/she/it has paid for it with essence.

Indeed - the very existence of this spell is a can of worms in implications.

QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Even transform is a bit much, but hey can at least peck you when you turn them into a chicken, ot RUN AWAY!

Hey, he could also fly. :grinbig:
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 28 2005, 06:54 AM
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chickens don't fly. Their evil malevolence (not just regular malevolence mind you) simply allows them to rise form the ground a short distance. Say.. to a barn roof or a mges head for a good peckin'
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NightmareX
post Sep 28 2005, 07:48 AM
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QUOTE (Oracle)
I dislike this spell. I think it does not fit to the established canon.

Heh. This one's actually been a part of cannon since 1st edition. Personally, I'm glad to see it back. 8)
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 28 2005, 07:55 AM
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QUOTE (NightmareX)
This one's actually been a part of cannon since 1st edition.

Actually, this is why it does not fit into SR3 or SR4 - tremendous shifts in magic paradigm.
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Oracle
post Sep 28 2005, 08:14 AM
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I think they removed it from canon with good reason.
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mintcar
post Sep 28 2005, 08:31 AM
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The drain for a decent transform spell in SR3 was devestating. I´ve had mages become very disapointed that the spell they chose was in reality no good because of the massive drain. Now it seems you only need force 1 with that spell, so the drain wont be much to worry about at all. With Turn to Goo you actually win by settling for a low force (if target has no counterspell and less than amazing Body), because that will limit your successes and thus the barrier rating of the goo.

What about setting a minimum force for spells like this? That way they are dangerous to even attempt if you have a low Magic attribute, and they become a bit more costly even for practiced magicans. A minimum force would also send a clear message to starting mages that these spells are not for beginners.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 28 2005, 08:36 AM
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Actually, a Force 1 spell usually is a good example on the application of the rule for Buying Hits:
QUOTE (SR4 p. 174 Spellcasting)
The hits scored on the Spellcasting Test may not exceed the spell’s Force (see Force, p. 171).

For both the caster and the victim.
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mintcar
post Sep 28 2005, 09:01 AM
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Yes but with Shapechange, there is no real reason for wanting more hits. They add 1 to the attributes of the animal, but those attributes are way high already. And if you target an unprotected Body 4 person with Turn to Goo, you only need Force 2 or maybe 3 to be fairly certain of success.
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NightmareX
post Sep 28 2005, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE (Oracle)
I think they removed it from canon with good reason.

The same could be stated about Petrify, although they left that one in. Really, the two spells aren't that different in their net effect.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 28 2005, 09:15 AM
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Considering how important Attributes are in SR4, Shapechange is quite a powerful spell on higher Force. ;)

As for TtG - indeed, Magic has become much harder to resist.
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mintcar
post Sep 28 2005, 09:22 AM
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It´s an EXTREMELY powerful spell on Force 1! That´s the point. Critter Form Shapechange to great cat= B 6 A 5 R 4 S 5, 2 Initiative passes! all this at force 1 and for 2 boxes of drain.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 28 2005, 09:31 AM
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Actually, that already would provide a bonus of +1... but it's nothing compared to the Tiger-on-Steroids Force 5 produces... for a Drain of 4.
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mintcar
post Sep 28 2005, 09:55 AM
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That will obviously not be the case in my game. I´m thinking 1 hit = gimped version with -1, 2 hits = ratings as they stand and all hits above that = bonus. If that´s not enough I guess a threshold based on body difference on top of that would do it. And I´m slamming a minimum 6 force on TtG (or +4 drain maybe).
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Fortune
post Sep 28 2005, 11:06 AM
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Neither Turn To Goo nor Petrify exist in my games.
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NightmareX
post Sep 28 2005, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
Neither Turn To Goo nor Petrify exist in my games.

To each their own. I've never had a problem with them. Then again, most of my players tend to shy away from magic (except adepts) :(
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Fortune
post Sep 28 2005, 11:37 AM
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Probably 75% of the characters I play are awakened, usually spellcasters, and by choice I have never used either of those spells (even in games that allow them). They just feel cheesy, and in my opinion, don't really fit with the rest of the magic system.
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NightmareX
post Sep 28 2005, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
Probably 75% of the characters I play are awakened, usually spellcasters, and by choice I have never used either of those spells (even in games that allow them). They just feel cheesy, and in my opinion, don't really fit with the rest of the magic system.

Same goes for me, I also tend to be the resident "magic guy" of the group. Never used petrify but I do like turn to goo on occasion. :)
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Ancient History
post Sep 28 2005, 12:07 PM
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Petrify has a long and honorable history, but I've always been particularly fond of ye olde Bug Barrier. Well, that and using Ignite to set their hair on fire.
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