Firearm Creation Rules, Am I cheating or not? Options

[Musashi Forever]

Yesterday I designed a custom shotgun. I wanted something that an overly tough street-sam could use as a sidearm. As far as I can tell, it is legal to take Barrel Reduction in the design phase and also take the Sawed-off option in the modification phase. Is this for real?

Now you do suffer some hefty restrictions. Heavy Pistol Ranges minus 10% overall range and -1 to the Power of the weapon. But you also gain 4 points of conceal. With the Improved Concealability option I wound up with a shotgun that has a conceal of 8! I thought it was kinda sick and I don't think a GM should allow it, but did I really use the rules correctly?


Also, do you guys think there should be a "Remove Stock" option? It would add 1 point of conceal for rifles and shotguns, but add 1 recoil and maybe some modifiers to shots at long and extreme range. I ask because there are plenty of shotguns without stocks in the world, even the SPAS-22 has a folding stock, but the Firearms Creation Rules state that rifles and shotguns cannot take the folding stock option. For rifles I just thought it would be cool to turn a sport rifle into a pistol that fires rifle rounds. (If you have played Fallout you can get a weapon like this for clearing a special mission.)

[Fix-it]

conceal rules are horribly, horribly broken.

[northern lights]

you can't just remove the stock on a rife, but you could use a pistol styled stock with a rifle chambered round. remington has a .221 fireball that is popularly used in bolt action pistols with reduced barrels. but as it is, the angle of the grip is all wrong to be used without the rest of the stock providing support from your shoulder. otherwise it would fly right out of your hand, esp with the shotgun.

have your sammy use a sawed off mossberg they don't have stocks.

[Corywn]

[jervinator]

That's why I would like to see a DECENT set of conversion rules from 3G3 to SR. For those of you who are not familiar wiith 3G3, it's a non-game-specific set of rules for weapon creation.
Unfortunately, the only set of 3G3-->SR conversion rules I've seen are worse than just winging it :(

[northern lights]

um how about:

"uh, gunsmiths don't really exist anymore. everyone just uses what's available on the street."

or for those that need it spelled out:

"as a GM, i don't feel like investing that amount of time, thought and energy on creating a suitable ruleset for it when i could instead spend those resources on the other aspects of our games such as plotline, character development, etc. so you as a player are going to have to live with it, or create your own suitable ruleset for it and if i approve it, we can implement it."

[hobgoblin]

from what i understand the SR4 series of books will not contain design rules.

modification rules i cant comment on tho...

[Trax]

It's too bad that I'm playing the weapons specialist from the SR3 book, I could've put those B/R skills into something better. Too bad I didn't know any better when i first started. :P

[TheBovrilMonkey]

I decided that when I was GMing that unless a character had the skills, contacts, money and equipment to actually make the guns that the player was designing, the guns were being manufactured by one of the various arms corps.

So, if the players designed a horrible weapon for their characters, it meant that it was also available to any NPC who had the cash. I found it very surprising how the players rarely put together any really nasty weapons ;)

[hyzmarca]

[Aku]

i think they key word may have been "suitable" hysmarca...

[northern lights]

yeah, it was meant as a comment on how people were looking at the canon rules and thinking they were broken, then looking for other rules to adapt and thinking that those weren't right, etc.

sorry bout the clarity issue, hyzmarca

[Corywn]

Raygun had a pretty nice and comprehensive set of rules if I recall...

A little complicated to utilize, but seemed to be decent.

[Musashi Forever]

But it seems that to make Raygun's work you need to buy into all of his rules for firearms, armor penetration, conceal and all that jazz. I love Raygun's site and all that he's done for the game, but in my personal experience that stuff is just too real for my games.