 The PCC and the Conspiracy [SPOILERS] |
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 Oct 4 2005, 12:31 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,453  |
We know that the Conspiracy to restore the USA already has their people in power in the UCAS. We also know that they have plenty of sympathizers in the CAS, who see themselves as the "true heirs" to the USA anyway.
But what about Pueblo? It seems to me that there might be quite a few people sympathetic to the idea in the PCC as well - they always seemed to be less ideological and more welcoming of non-Natives than the other NAN nations. And the way they gobbled up the Ute recently can't help but work in the Conspiracy's favor. So maybe they engineered the whole thing? The way I see it, the Conspiracy will try to strengthen their hold on the UCAS, CAS, and PCC in the coming years, all the while trying to (further) destabilize the Sioux and Tir Taingire, the biggest threats to their dominance. And sooner or later, they will try to topple the Sioux once and for all... Thoughts? |
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Oct 4 2005, 08:41 PM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 7,807 |
One major problem, the megacorps. They would stand to lose more financial ground than almost anyone if a world superpower re-emerged (considering they are the world superpowers). If any major political or military group tried to unite anything as large as North America under one governmental aegis then I could see the megas try and put the kibosh on them with a great deal of prejudice. Without corporate support modern governments would collapse, no defense contracts, warranty support, or financial aid. Also, would they be willing to risk Desert Wars North American-style? The corp militaries are powerful enough to lay a serious hurtin' on anyone.
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Oct 4 2005, 08:44 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 7,807 |
Also, don't forget the Great Dragons, Ghostwalker and Hestaby, as well as others all have their own stakes in North America. Though I doubt either of them alone could withstand a combined military assault, together with their minions and spirit allies would present enough of a threat to make any military commander wince.
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Oct 4 2005, 08:54 PM
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#4
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Pueblo Corporate Council is more a corporation and less a nation. If they do anything, it's with the tacit approval of the Corporate Court... otherwise, the Corporate Court would just Omega Order their ass. Still, I don't think the megacorps would necessarily prevent the "reunification of the US", if it was good for business.
Hestaby's sphere of influence is mostly in CalFree, at the Oregon/California border. I'm sure she would make sure that there are provisions to maintain her little domain, but that would be the extent of her meddling. Same with Ghostwalker and Denver. I doubt that either would be proactive for/against reunification without some other personal agenda. |
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Oct 4 2005, 09:58 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 7,807 |
Personal agendas? Ghostwalker laid siege to a major metropolitan city without a second thought as part of his personal agenda. If any of the greats have no qualms about taking on something that irks them then Ghostwalker is at the top of the pack, followed closely by Aden and Sirrurg (and never count out Lofwyr). But back to the thread, there are WAAYY to many divergent agendas going on in North America to not cause a mass reaction if someone tried to bring back the US. The corps, the NAN (they put the kibosh on the US once, now that they're fully nations, who says they couldn't do it again?), Aztlan/Aztechnology ('nuff said, blood magic for everybody!), Tir Tairngire (you try and bully the little brother, the big brother Tir na nOg is definitely gonna' get involved), CalFree/Hestaby/Saito is a mess no one would want to mess with. If The Conspiracy wants to try it they can try but I honestly don't think they could pull it off.
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Oct 5 2005, 12:25 AM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
is it just me, or does it not mention that the whole re-unification plan thing failed according the history between 2065 and 2070 in the book.
more specifically, the right column of page 34, at the top, under "General Colloton for President", it mentions the New Revolution tried and failed to do it's thing. at least, i think that's the group you were referring too. if not, then i suppose i've just horribly sidetracked your thread :( but anyways, if they are the group you were thinking of... well, i guess that would more or less clarify what happened with them (although, interestingly, it says nothing about stuff happening in the CAS, the NAN, Tir Tairngire, or Cal(not-very)Free. |
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Oct 5 2005, 04:13 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
Except Gen. Collton is PART of the conspiracey.
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Oct 5 2005, 07:37 AM
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#8
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
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Oct 5 2005, 10:56 AM
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#9
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
They're welcoming if you can afford it or have skills to offer that they require. What would Pueblo get out of the deal though? Granted I haven't laid eyes on System Failure yet so I don't know how hard they were hit, not much I'm guessing since they were still able to gobble up the Ute. Most of the books I've read that mentioned it were saying that Pueblo had the best economy, they actually make a profit, and set-up on the continent so why would they want to get lumbered with a basket case like the UCAS?
Riiight. From my point of view they'd probably like the idea. Rather than have to deal with a dozen or so different nations and regulations you can now just buy off one government and have a whole continent under your control. And since reforming the country would mean re-writing the laws and such they'd get to be in on the ground floor laying things out how they want them, 'cause the government most likely still bends over for whoever's bought them last IMO. |
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Oct 5 2005, 11:05 AM
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#10
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Edit: Double post.
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Oct 5 2005, 11:53 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,453 |
Note how Lowfyr is trying to do the same thing in Europe... The chaos of the Awakening lead to a desintegration of a great many nations. Now many groups are trying to reverse that - but each has its own agenda. |
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Oct 5 2005, 03:45 PM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 4-February 03 Member No.: 4,007 |
The ancient powers and megas pushed balkanization early in the awakening so they could more easily influence smaller countries to grant them the rights they wanted. Now that they are entrenched they probably believe they can deal better with larger countries... they have the leverage to assert their rights, and common sets of laws/tarrifs are starting to look more attractive.
Regard the conspiracy... the way I read System Failure was that Gen. Colton is part of the conspiracy, except at the last minute she backstabbed her partner to take the lead role for herself. Regarding PPC, you can read it either way. Either they are part of the conpiracy, or they are independent. Much of the internal fighting in the PPC described earlier could have been read as a struggle between the conspiracy and the SAIM aligned insterests within the country. Pel |
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Oct 5 2005, 08:00 PM
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#13
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
The only real narrative explanation for breaking up the U.S. would be so that forming Tir Tairngire would be easier against a country like Salish versus the entire United States. It's not like justice, empathy, or nobility played a part in anyone helping SAIM, and the megas... Jesus, that's a joke, right? They already had the Seretech and Shiawase Decisions. They had the Presidents, Congress and Supreme Court they wanted, but hadn't seen since the robber barons of the late 19th century. There is nothing in the balkanization of the U.S. and Canada that made their existence easier with the creation of a dozen or so countries with their own law, tariffs, languages, economies, and not to mention the fact that the NAN was formed because SAIM was protesting the injustices heaped upon native peoples when corporations were raping their land and resources during the Resource Rush. Under the U.S., to get access to those resources means dealing with an indifferent to hostile (to Indians) Cogress and Interior Department. With the NAN it means dealing with people directly who just said in quite stark terms that they are not welcome. While that changed over time, the cost-benefit calculations don't bear out a convincing reason why the corps would support the balkanization of the U.S. and Canada.
So, yeah. Balkanization was just a delightful outcome for the megacorps. It certainly wasn't just a cool idea and a characteristic motif of cyberpunk settings in the 1980s... Oh, wait. It was. No one has ever accused FASA, R. Tal, or even GURPS of thinking too hard when they made radical changes to the political landscape. Immortals are just a convenient ex post facto excuse. As for the General, it may have been last minute to Senator Braddock and the people following him, but I cannot believe for a second that she decided halfway through the coup d'etat that Braddock had to go. I mean, why else would she be in DeeCee the day after the Crash which was linked to Deus and Otaku and would involve application of considerable JTF Seattle resources to assist the Metroplex Guard and Lone Star in quelling the insurgency in Seattle and the Pacific Northwest as well as the fallout from the effective collapse of civilization. She is the most successfully Machiavellian actor in the Shadowrun melodrama since Lofwyr. As for PCC... Personally, I find it hard to believe there would be anyone in the country who'd want to see them under the thumb of Washington any further. Maybe if Santa Fe was the new capital it'd be one thing, but it's not like the people living here now are big fans of the federal government or anything East Coast. The only benefit to PCC might be more direct access to UCAS markets, but that's really an inconseqential benefit compared to the loss of sovereignty, the political change which would cripple an economy whose growth is comparable to modern day China, and the treatment of PCC as a backwoods dumping ground instead of as the most powerful economy in North America behind only Japan. That's not to say there wouldn't be any people, but if they were that powerful and successful, PCC wouldn't exist. As it stands, there is no feasible reason for the people to want to have anything to do with the UCAS politically. |
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Oct 6 2005, 07:53 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,453 |
- I think the Awakening caught pretty much everyone with their pants down - except, of course, for the Immortal Elves and the dragons. So the power of the megacons was actually weakened in many areas (like the NAN and other "Awakened Lands"). But these days things are changing - the megacons have caught up, and the way they have slapped the Tirs around indicates that the Awakened Lands have no longer the edge they used to have. - The way I read it, the group that first infiltrated the White House were no more than expendable pawns in the eyes of the Conspiracy. The leaders of the Conspiracy know that you can't take over a country by storming its presidental palace (except maybe for one of those revolutions with broad popular support, and we don't want one of those, now do we?). On the other hand, if one of your hand-picked guys (or gals, as the case may be) shows Leadership in a time of Crisis (not hard, especially when you were responsible for the Crisis in the first place and knew exactly what kind of resources you would need to put an end to it) and gets to become President with broad popular support... Well, that's much more useful. Looks much more democratic, too, and the masses love that... - There have been hints that some people in the NAN support the Conspiracy. And of the NANs, the most likely support is probably from Pueblo. I mean, who else might support them - the Sioux? |
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Oct 6 2005, 08:10 AM
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#15
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
The problem is that there is no rational reason for anyone in power in PCC to support a reintegration into a new U.S. See above.
Likewise, the fact that the megacorps and even an alliance of just two NA countries (Salish and UCAS) can batter Tir Tairngire economically proves my point why the balkanization was necessary for it to exist, but had no appreciable benefit for the corps. Anyway, why not Sioux? "Though defeated, the New Revolution has an impact in North America’s political landscape. Some countries are severely bruised (UCAS, Sioux Nation) or experience radical change (Tir Tairngire, Ute). A few pretend it’s business as usual (California, CAS)" (107). As written, the book suggests that the Sioux got it in the ass as badly as the UCAS, which would suggest a similar level of insurgency and pervasiveness of the NR. But the Tir... Wow. When I read the plot hook about Lugh Surehand I just about shit myself. |
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Oct 6 2005, 08:17 AM
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#16
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Well, the explanation that an immortal elf and a dragon were the ones behind the unrests in Tir always was... too easy.
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Oct 6 2005, 08:33 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,453 |
So, any guesses on who is in charge of Tir Tairngire now?
What form of government, etc... |
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Oct 6 2005, 08:40 AM
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#18
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
'Democracy', of course. :grinbig:
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Oct 6 2005, 09:18 AM
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#19
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Well nothing I've heard from the Tir suggests an overthrow of the entire council of princes. So one of them will be in charge now. I'm betting Jenna N'Farra and probably the slitch who is probably Alachia in disguise.
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Oct 6 2005, 09:20 PM
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#20
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
That's not saying much since what we've heard is precisely jack shit.
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Oct 7 2005, 10:04 AM
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#21
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Yeah, I would like to see a sort bullet point list of changes in the world.
Some stuff to cover. Changes in Draco Big Players dead or alive Changes in countries Status of ongoing stuff - mostly the situation of the Arc at the mo |
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Oct 7 2005, 12:21 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,453 |
Parts have probably been converted to a museum. Others are now again a big mall, and others are closed off, still examined by experts, or have been taken over by squatters or ghosts. Some might be used as an exercise ground for building combat. Frankly, once all the scientific and technical data is excavated, the whole building is a big money pit. Renraku could afford good security and maintenance for it when it was inhabited by several tens of thousands of loyal employees and had some wiz factories and research labs. But who is going to live there now, if they have any choice in the matter? I mean, sure, Renraku can just order employees to move there, but employee morale is also important up to a point... Thus, parts of it are going to be abandoned - there's simply no money in keeping an eye on everything. |
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Oct 7 2005, 12:41 PM
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#23
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Why should Renraku allow that squatters, ghosts and worse inhabit parts of the Arc? What would that do to their reputation? That's so stupid.
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Oct 7 2005, 04:04 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,453 |
Their reputation already got shot to hell when Deus took over, and there is little they can do to salvage that. At the moment, the best they can do is draw as little attention to it as possible. Keeping the Arc cleaned up costs money. And where is Renraku going to get that money? There's not that much to be made from the Arc any more, and Renraku is a business. |
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Oct 7 2005, 04:33 PM
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#25
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The loss of face by admitting a defeat like that would even bigger than the event itself.
In fact, that would not only cost them way more than getting it up nice and shiny, but would cause an open season on Renraku. |
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