 Build Point Allocation, CharGen design theories? |
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 Oct 9 2005, 06:24 PM
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#26
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Hoppelhäschen 5000  Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951  |
No such things as Enemys in SR4 until now.
On the other hand, they just could be Contacs with negative Loyalty. ;) |
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Oct 10 2005, 12:49 AM
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#27
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Now, that could work beautifully... Just make enemies with the same stats as contacts, and have them 'pay' BPs accordingly at char gen. Just rename Loyalty as 'Hatred' (or preferably something that sounds better...) |
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Oct 10 2005, 02:19 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 12-April 04 From: Lacey, Washington Member No.: 6,237 |
How about "Animosity"??
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Oct 10 2005, 02:43 AM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
And suddenly Animosity 6, Connections 1 enemy bums will be appearing everywhere :)
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Oct 10 2005, 02:46 AM
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#30
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I dunno...an Influence 1/Animosity 6 enemy is a suicide bomber in the making.
-Siege |
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Oct 10 2005, 02:49 AM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
Ok, you've convinced me :)
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Oct 10 2005, 08:52 PM
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#32
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I like it.
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Oct 10 2005, 08:55 PM
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#33
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
By the way, did I miss a canon rule that caps the number of starting Contacts? Or shall I prepare for Infirm Combat-Paralysis humans with no appreciable skills of their own leading a platoon of fanatical highly-placed politicians and underworld leaders?
EDIT: And by "prepare," I mean "bring out my official GM Baseball Bat of Sanity." |
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Oct 10 2005, 09:00 PM
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#34
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Such things sound very efficient, until you realize that you can't really control any decision of them.
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Oct 11 2005, 12:19 AM
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#35
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Alright...lemme have a crack at this... "Sneaky M.B."* Elven Face Adept [ Spoiler ]
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Oct 11 2005, 12:26 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
"Sneaky M.B." would be a little boring to play IMHO...
... as a mastermind villain, in the other hand... |
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Oct 11 2005, 04:57 PM
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#37
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Visions of "City of Villains" aside, I'm imagining the PCs clawing their way past the hordes of influential lackeys and their respective goons only to find a frail little dude in a wheelchair hiding behind a desk. Almost a "Wild, Wild West" villain there (classic or Will Smith, take your pick). Hrm, an anthroform-rigger version of that might be fun too. What was the name of the SR novel guy who had a degenerative disease that broke down his connective tissues, forcing him to live as human stew in a life-support vat? He was one mean mother in the Matrix, of course, and a corporate division head or something. |
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Oct 11 2005, 10:26 PM
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#38
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Thomas Roxborough. Nice, friendly Azzie. ;) |
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Oct 12 2005, 03:48 AM
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#39
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
That's the one. He was a neat mastermind. I especially liked his "get out of the vat" scheme.
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Oct 12 2005, 04:22 AM
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#40
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
sorry but he is pure munchkin cheese
think about it Roxborogh is what every decker Munchkin dreams of |
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Oct 12 2005, 05:12 AM
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#41
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
He's allowed to be "munchkin" because he lives in a novel. He'll never exist as a tabletop PC, so there's no problem.
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Oct 12 2005, 11:40 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
I think I would worry more about the munchkinism of the opposite -- that is connections 6 animosity 1 enemies. "I shall use my world-wide influence, my massive cash reserves, my entire global empire to bend the will of the world for the purposes of slightly annoying that guy that cheesed me off just a bit that once." |
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Oct 12 2005, 03:31 PM
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#43
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Yeah, but Connections 6 people are typically too busy to bother. :)
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Oct 12 2005, 03:40 PM
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#44
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
But that's worse, because they'll subcontract. :)
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Oct 12 2005, 04:17 PM
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#45
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Mastermind: "You there! I'll give you 50 nuyen to give that shadowrunner a dirty look!"
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Oct 12 2005, 04:30 PM
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#46
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I think it's a matter of scale.
Influence 6 means they can do almost anything they want to - up to and including fragging with you for no other reason than, well, you annoy them. Evil Mastermind: "Hey, you - I'll pay you 50 nuyen to put these nails under their tires. And another 150 afterwards." Do you really want to find out how badly even the Oyabun's minor displeasure can cost you? Or people not wanting to offend the Oyabun by dealing with you? Or curry favor with the Oyabun by dealing harshly with you? -Siege |
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Oct 13 2005, 01:52 AM
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#47
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Target Group: Members Posts: 70 Joined: 2-September 05 Member No.: 7,673 |
Attributes: 150 BPs B 1 A 2 R 1 S 1 C 7 I 2 L 2 W 4 M 3 * E 4 totals 160BP doesn't it? Essence: 5.6* * because of the essence loss you have to buy 1 extra point of magic to end up with a 3 |
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Oct 13 2005, 05:28 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 598 Joined: 12-October 05 Member No.: 7,835 |
In my opinion, the BP system is far too generous. It allows starting characters to be elite in their field of expertise. It is also flawed because the BP system is (generally) linear while Karma costs increase along with statistics, which encourages players to take advantage of "discounts" given during character generation.
In my opinion, player characters should start as relatively weak, gaining proficiency and talent as a shadowrunner as they perform runs. I understand that having a rich and interesting history is both fun and rewarding. It goes too far when that history can include being a former James Bond or world-class bodybuilder. If Damien Knight is my friend for life, why am I running the shadows? If I had a quarter of a million dollars I wouldn't crawl through a sewer to assasinate someone. This problem could be fixed -- and the core rules shortened and simplified -- by making the character creation process the same as the character improvement process. I would highly recommend placing a lower-limit on the amount of BP spent on Physical and Mental Attributes. It should be 1/4 total BP. If anybody wants, I can give some examples of how magicians are ridiculously overpowered and how the current system can be subverted. |
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Oct 13 2005, 05:32 AM
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#49
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Not in their field, just in a single skill...but not quite because to be the best they need other things to be "best of" including maximum values in Edge and the linked Attribute.
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Oct 13 2005, 05:38 AM
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#50
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
That does mean that the Karma system and the BP system are fundamentally at odds. But you would be just as correct to say that this shows that the Karma system is flawed as that the BP system is. If the BP system looked like the Karma system or the Karma system looked like the BP system, there would be no problem. The problem is that the BP and Karma costs are different, not that the BP costs are set up in any particular way. The BP or the Karma system has to go, being replaced by the other. But using either as a template works fine. -Frank |
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