Using the "No Soaking Roll" option, ...and keeping Body useful Options

[GregPogor]

One thing I loved in past Shadowrun editions rules was the relative quickness of combat rules, due to the fact that the target and the attacker both rolled once to figure out if the attack lands, and how much damage the victim would suffer. The new rules add another dice roll, now every combat attack is an opposed test: before you'd roll your attack, and the defender would roll the soak test. Now, before the soak, the defender rolls his evasive action too.

I'm considering using this "official" rule tweak:

[Lord Ben]

I think I'd play a Troll (+1) with orthoskin (+3), an armored jacket (+8) and a helmet (+1) for a total of 13 ballistic armor at char gen.

Now I'm immune to pistols, most melee weapons, and darn near ANYTHING else if ballistic directly subtracts from DV.

[GregPogor]

[Lord Ben]

Well, from my IC perspective any mage that mana bolts me is going to die in the next 2 seconds. Full auto from AR narrow burst gives me 15 dice after recoil comp, (5 successes), plus 17DV -3AP from the shot itself. I'd spend edge if I needed, to, but I doubt it.

The game is pretty well balanced. It doesn't take long at all to dodge/soak, etc. You just need to make sure your players can do addition.

[GregPogor]

[Nkari]

Body is useless until you need it.. then you wish you had more.. :P
Same goes for willpower.. :D

[GregPogor]

[Lord Ben]

I think that the houserule of subtracting armor from DV would disproportionally benefit Troll Street Sams, another houserule of changing body to be better would also benefit Troll's more than other races as well.

Also, what about bone density and titanium bone lacing? Their benefit is to increase body for purposes of resisting damage. Do those cyberwear peices just go away or do you introduce another houserule to change those?

[GregPogor]

[Azralon]

Body, using the RAW, has a quickly compound-scaling usefulness when it comes to character survivability.

1) Every 2 more points of Body gives you an extra "hit point" of physical damage capacity.

2) Every 3 more points of Body, on average, negates 1 DV of incoming physical damage per attack.

3) Every 1.5 more points of Body, on average, heals 1 "hit point" of physical damage per day and every 3 more points of Body heals an average 1 "hit point" of Stun per hour.

So loosely -- if you got hit only once per day -- every 6 points of Body typically negates 9 boxes (+3 physical boxes + 2 DV soaked + 4 boxes healed) of physical damage per day. Simplifying that ratio, you're looking at 2 Body getting rid of 3 physical boxes.

Ignoring the healing aspect of it, you're looking at 6 points of Body mitigating a total of 5 boxes of Physical damage if you get hit once, or 7 if you get hit twice, 9 if three times, et cetera. The formula comes to Body mitigating (Body/2) + ((Body/3)*incoming attacks) damage on average.

EDIT: Typos, typos!

[blakkie]

[Lord Ben]

That's just the armor rating, tack 13 body on top of that if you're using the normal rules. And my armor has rating 6 non-conductivity! 8)

[Azralon]

If you just don't like rolling to soak, divide all armor values by 3 and have those ratings subtract from the DV. Same for Body and Body modifiers if you want.

Ballistic 6 means -2 DV flat out, for instance. Impact 4 means -1 DV.

It decreases armor variation a bit, but the odds will work out the same. I'd advise keeping the Body rolls just so you can spend Edge on something in clutch situations. :)

[blakkie]

[GregPogor]

[GregPogor]

[Lord Ben]

Is there something that limits how much enhancements you can put on armor? I didn't think so. It has an avail, but not a +X avail. So you can stack all you want.

I'm not saying I'm invincible (actually I really play an Orc so knock 2 soak off that theoretical Troll), just that I can take a licking and keep on ticking.

But the point of the thread is the rule. I don't like it since it's a houserule to affect an optional rule. Then by the time you houserule bone density you're houseruling a crapload of stuff.

Taking total soak /3 is probably the best way of doing it. Just a fixed TN.

[Fortune]

[Fortune]

The whole SR4 mechanic is no more time-consuming or complex than SR3's roll-to-hit/dodge/soak combination, except that it's a little more streamlined and elegant under SR4. I don't really seen the need to speed the game up even more by taking the random element out of armor, and making combat even more abstract.

[GregPogor]

[Azralon]

I agree with Fortune. The new system requires so little math on the fly (especially compared to SR3) that I don't see a reason to eliminate soak rolls. Soak rolls as they stand allow us to keep our "hit points" (aka "damage boxes") down to a low, easily-eyeballed count. Just using Body to add damage boxes will start inflating the box count scale to the point where you may as well actually call them hit points.

I mean, remove soaking if you really want to, but I don't have a need for it. :)

The only thing I can see that could be sped up a little is that the defender has to make a Reaction (+Dodge, maybe) roll to see if he's hit at all, and if so then a separate Body+Armor roll. The attacker gets the luxury of tossing just one set of dice.

I suppose it could be simplified by just having two colors of dice thrown at once: one for the evasion and one for the soak.

[GregPogor]

[Azralon]

[Lord Ben]

Yes, but you're wrong. Bone Density only increases body for damage resistance tests. And with your alternate rule there is no more damage resistance test. Thus no benefit other than physical damage.

Bone Density Augmentation: In a long and painful
process, the molecular matrix of the subject’s bones are altered
for density and strength. The procedure also strengthens
ligaments, but as a side effect increases the character’s
weight. Increase the recipient’s Body by the bone density
rating for damage resistance tests. Characters with bone
density deal Physical damage in unarmed combat.

[GregPogor]