 Fun with hacking, Random Brainstorming |
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 Oct 13 2005, 04:53 PM
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#26
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Chicago Survivor  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033  |
But even without a rigger box you can edit the map software or spoof it as needed so that it thinks grandma moses there on the sidewalk is a really good parking spot.
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Oct 13 2005, 04:57 PM
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#27
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
@Eyeless: I do disagree about where he/you draw the line though. But that is really only about envisioning how exactly AR is implemented on a vehicle. I would expect the gear selector, mostly because i would expect by 2070 even 'standard' trasmissions will have electric shifters. Accelorator as well, hell current cars have had electronic control of that for years for cruise control.
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Oct 13 2005, 05:38 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
The question is what is designed to be connected to the net, rather than what is electronic and controlled by an onboard computer. A radio connected to a AR system isn't necessarily connected to the autopilot, just as I don't connect your electronic ignition to the device which controls the fuel flow.
The way I envision the systems in shadowrun are based on something as follows: Shifter, Steering, Brakes<---connected to--->Autopilot<----recieving Information from----Sensors and Grid Link Reports Onboard Sensors Over ride Gridlink. Gridlink reports are recieved, rather than two way connections. Grid Link Sensors in city area's locate traffic (Rigger 3, pg. 15.) Radio and secondary systems are run from the dashboard and an additional AR interface, but are not actually connected computer wise to the driving systems, the same way you are not supposed to put secondary systems on the same circuit breaker line as critical systems in current cars. They merge at the upper level, (Aka the dashboard or the person's head), and seem to be connected, but are separate systems designed not to take input from one another. Edit done: I checked what I was writing and realized I was getting overly technically and just repeating 'Overlay /= Same System.' My point was that Cars are designed to be compartmentalized to minimize damage, and I do not see that as changing for it's electronic systems. But, I'm not your GM. It's his discission in the end. |
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Oct 13 2005, 05:45 PM
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#29
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
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Oct 13 2005, 05:57 PM
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#30
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
Who the hell comes up with drek like that? An MP3 player breast implant? That's insane. |
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Oct 13 2005, 06:17 PM
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#31
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
It seems pretty reasonable to me. If people are going to get implants whose entire purpose is to "take up space", they might as well get some enhancements put into them. From a Shadowrun standpoint, a set of breast implants has a capacity of like 4, meaning that you can fit quite a bit of useful ware into them with no loss of functionality of the original device. Can you think of a Shadowrun character who wouldn't at least think of getting their Commlink installed in a space like that? Now, with our backwards 2005 Tech, a commlink pretty much just plays/uploads music and has a signal of about 1 or 2. But by 2070, those things can operate a person's entire personal area network. I've been wondering why people were content to have their breast implants jiggle around doing nothing for years. -Frank |
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Oct 13 2005, 06:18 PM
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#32
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Everytime an exotic dancer touches her breast the song changes... I think I like this idea.
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Oct 13 2005, 07:57 PM
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#33
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
In the short time I've been on these forums, I've noticed that Frank tends to assign statistics to the oddest things.
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Oct 13 2005, 08:01 PM
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#34
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Well, Frank hasn't been around much longer than you have, Azralon, so don't feel bad. :)
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Oct 13 2005, 08:04 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
I dare say Frank is more useful than the rest of us. :D
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Oct 13 2005, 09:18 PM
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#36
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Depends on what you define as "useful", I guess. *shrugs* |
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Oct 13 2005, 09:22 PM
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#37
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
@Rifleman: Once you are the wireless access point to the system, which effectively a PAN whether it is wired or not, i'm saying you are in and can start doing Commands and stuff to the devices.
If for some reasons they designed completely issolated sub-systems, as long as it has an AR access point you should be able to hop over to it as you'll (barring a large vehicle) then be within 3m to hop over to it. |
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Oct 13 2005, 09:56 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
@blakkie
I'm saying that systems can be isolated from a each other except for limited and extreamely defined input/output between them. This is not saying that it is impossible to hack, just that you need a connection to the top level (Aka the dashboard, which would logically be accessed through physical connection for security sake), rather than trying to hack the radio and then override the car's dashboard through a physical connection that is designed to be limited to simple commands through a series commands that could be probably measured in byte. It is not practical nor economical to build cars like that, and I don't see that changing. The software and the hardware are not designed for it, that is what i'm arguing. Edit: Attempted to clairify my argument. |
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Oct 13 2005, 10:17 PM
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#39
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Now that statement makes a lot more sense to me, unfortunately that isn't really how the RAW is written. :( But it certainly is the only way to keep me from using a 100 :nuyen: Maglock as cheap version of a 9,000+ :nuyen: commlink that i mentioned in a different thread....short of GM fiat dropping cows dropping from the sky and killing my PC. :rollin: :dead: However it doesn't really matter that the software/hardware is written for a particular direction of data flow. Anything accessable by AR is accessable to the hacker. Once the hacker can reach ANY AR point in the vehicle, he'll be able to jump to any other AR point even in an otherwise totally issolated system. Then any thing connected to that AR point is vulnerable to exploitation. The only thing possible to slow the hacker is having everything 0 Signal, which means they have to be within 3m (depending on rules reading here) to hook up. Of course strategic use of a gumball on a microsensor thrown onto the vehicle pushes that range out substatially. The next stage up of protection from there is radio dampening paint encasing the vehicle (on shutters ala the Tim Burton version of the Batmobile? or perhaps in a special mostly transparent coating on the windows?) and the only outside connection is your remote key entry with that system totally issolated. That just isn't going to happen on mom & pop's vehicle. |
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Oct 13 2005, 10:31 PM
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#40
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
all vehicles have a pilot rating.
as i understand it, that means all vehicles can be commanded as a drone. no hardware is needed. you only need rigger adaptation to rig the vehicle, not to command it. or at least, that's how i read it. if i'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time... =P |
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Oct 13 2005, 10:34 PM
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#41
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
No, they buried that on page [edit: 238 ], and put misleading text in the Rigger Adaptation description. :(
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Oct 13 2005, 10:40 PM
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#42
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i see... so the pilot ratings listed for each vehicle in the list... those would be what?
maybe the theoretical rating that they *would* have *if* they were rigger adapted or something? ah well, who cares. you can still remotely unlock the door and start the car. sure, that doesn't do you any good if you're trying for a car that's moving, but if it's sitting in someone's driveway (or parking space at work... even better since it's unlikely people have memorised all the cars in the lot, and thus may not notice that you aren't the owner as easily) that should be enough to get away with it, even if it isn't rigger adapted... |
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Oct 13 2005, 10:44 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
As long as my players aren't using the every Ford Jackrabbit they see as a vehicular weapon, I'm cool with that. :D |
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Oct 13 2005, 10:47 PM
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#44
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
...useless until you spend an extra 2,500 :nuyen:. Well not entirely, the kids could play Miracle Shooter™ during long trips. You could also crack it and sell copies on the street corner for 2 :nuyen: + the cost of the chip you burn it onto. ;) |
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Oct 13 2005, 10:50 PM
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#45
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Creative use of stopping engines/downshifting during pursuits would also lead to interesting results. However in the time it takes to crack into the vehicle the vehicle in question is likely long gone....except for the one you are pursuing, and if they have a commlink on and it's within range you're golden to try. Beauty part of it is that even if they see you coming in they can't just reboot the system to shake you. Cybercombat during car chases! |
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Oct 14 2005, 06:49 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 28-March 05 From: NA/UCAS/IN/ Member No.: 7,246 |
Gotta beg to differ a little bit. I have seen women, natural and "augmented" with capacities of less than 1 or certainly more than a 4. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: |
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Oct 14 2005, 07:26 AM
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#47
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Oh sure, the total size can be quite large, but the point is how much capacity there is before a loss of functionality occurs. I rather imagine that you could physically fit more devices into an ocular cavity than your eye's capacity would allow - it's just that eventually it no longer functions as an eye. Similarly, an augmented breast issupposed to function as a breast, both in the milk delivery sense and as Apple would say: the "look and feel". Now a breast is normally a layer of skin over a structure that is mostly adipose tissue that is jammed in there tight enough that it holds its shape well, without being so squeezed that it tears the skin. Now underneath that, you have a series of secratory glands, but you pretty much can't feel them because of the intervening tissues. So in the augmented breast you have a substantial amount of leeway in the middle where you can put actually rigid bodies such as Commlinks, Biomonitors, and Autoinjectors. But over that you are going to have to put an endoskeletal structure to hold those in place, and over that you are going to have to put several layers of supple material with increasingly large amounts of give. That's what's going to really kill your capacity - the soft coating on the augmented breast's endoskeleton. Remember, the harder you make the core materials, the thicker you're going to need to make the soft layers, and thus the less space you have for internal devices. It's quite a design problem. Now, I feel that a capacity of 4 is somewhat conservative, but I also feel that in a situation where you intend the augmented area to be subjected to repeated tactile scrutiny that you should err on the side of caution. That kind of searching produces substantial bonuses to the perception check to find implants, after all. -Frank |
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Oct 14 2005, 07:39 AM
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#48
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Well said.
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Oct 14 2005, 10:55 AM
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#49
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That's an Errata - Pilot is Software and has no prequisites other than Response, nor does Remote Control. |
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Oct 14 2005, 03:38 PM
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#50
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
No, what i was talking about there is that making a vehicle not listed as a drone into a drone is not described in the Rigger Adaptation description (that is somewhat misleading in it's stated purpose), or judging it as such by it having Pilot software coming with the vehicle, but instead in the middle of the left column on page 238. So what is the "errata", and has it actually been acknowledges officially as "errata"? That the Pilot software doesn't come with the vehicle (which is what i assumed that column ment)? By "Remote Control" do you mean as a drone? Because that does have a prereq of a Rigger Adaptation kit OR being a "drone" vehicle (but without Pilot software i don't see how you can Captian Chair it). |
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