Mortality rate for true n00bs?, Should they survive their first run? Options

[nezumi]

So here's the background... I'm running an online game of about half a dozen teenagers. One of them has some background with SR. One of them seems to be a good (if aggressive) player. Most of the rest only post intermittently. I had explained several times they're not Neo, they need to give the cops a good leeway and keep to the shadows.

The GM (myself) made the pay waaay too low ($4k per person, plus expenses), but it was supposed to be a milk run. Break into a rented floor in an office building in an A section of town, grab a box, and get gone. The 'experienced' SR player made a few mistakes, but got out, with two of his buddies in tow. They're safe.

However, the 'aggressive' player rounded up half a dozen guards, drugged and shot them, but left one alive and conscious (who had an internal cyber radio). He missed hints that shooting the guards may be a poor idea. He ignored messages from the experienced character that running would be good. He ignored the decker (PC, then NPC, as the player disappeared) warnings that the cops were surrounding the building. He WAS smart enough to get captured disguised as one of the hostages, rather than go down with guns blazing.

His friend didn't post anything (except, literally "I run to a coffin motel") As such, I assumed he followed along with his buddy, which means he too is up the creek, except doubly so because his crime is not playing at all, rather than playing but overestimating himself.

So these two guys get caught. I figure, well, color me sideways, what do I do with these two characters? The quiet one I don't mind killing off (if you don't care enough to post, well...) So they both get carted away to the hospital, under guard. LS decides to question them. Pretty standard, good cop bad cop, but I figure they're more interested in the employer than the runner, so they're willing to give the PCs a criminal SIN, a tracking device, a fake package, and do a sting on the employer. A big owie to their reputation, plus a criminal SIN, but at least they survive, right? I warn them a few times they're in over their head.

The 'good' player figures this out pretty quick. He accepts the deal, and asks for the cop's cell phone to call some guys. He *KNOWS* it's bugged. But he calls his decker to tell everyone to get ready. I know he's planning on getting them to help him break out, he just hasn't said that quite yet.

The other guy suddenly realizes that if he doesn't start posting, he's going to get dead. So he makes up some dumb, cock and bull story about how a troll with dreads threatened his family into doing it.


So the cops have two dummies sitting in their hospital. One is talking on their tapped phone about getting a jail break. One is clearly lying through his teeth (his story doesn't match up with his buddy's, for one, and his buddy is a much better talker).

And there I am. I submit myself to your lashing. Should I start explaining how to make new characters, or let them out on an 'administrative mix-up'?

[Fix-it]

kill them, then find a humorous way to show a play-by-play of thier mistakes. hopefully they'll learn the lesson.

[Nkari]

Kill the moron, and let the rest of the runner team deal with the semi moron after they get shot up and getting hints that its the semi morons fault.. ;)

[Nikoli]

better yet, have the Johnson hire the ones that made it out to clean up the mess the remainder of the team made.

[Fortune]

If the aggressive player's character was in disguise and pretending to be a hostage, how did Lone Star know he isn't one?

[Siege]

Do they have any experience with gritty heist games? Or even movies, for that matter?

They may not a proper frame of reference to conceptually understand the idea of "Shadowrun."

For honest-to-Goddess newbs, a gentler introduction to Shadowrun might have been in order before starting something as (relatively) complex as a corp run.

-Siege

[nezumi]

[brohopcp]

Say the deal's off because the runners are obviously lying and have Lonestar send them through the legal system. When security officers end up dead, the legal system consists of a sham trial and death row for a month, ending with execution. Even if they turn in their team and Johnson the best they should get would be life in prison.

[nezumi]

[Siege]

Needless comment deleted.

As for the relative seriousness of consequences, kill them. If they got this sloppy while running against a more serious opponent, death would be the least of their worries.

As this point, you're teaching the players, not the characters.

Just be clear with the consequences - like, "your mug has been plastered all over the trid with a 25k reward...is that a spark of recognition in that squatter's eye? Wow, I'd bet that much cred would buy a couple of bikes for that go-gang..."

Understanding why getting caught and being dragged into the light is a bad thing for this career choice.

-Siege

[Nikoli]

Basically, you should explain to the players, all of them, that such stuff isn't tolerated by the authorities and that you'll continue to play it out as it would happen were they experienced. Then make new characters and start them off slow and get them used to the grit of your Shadowrun.

[NightRain]

[Eldritch]

Heh, I started getting worried :P

[fistandantilus4....]

I voted for maim but not kill, but after acutally reading the post, I think I'll change my vote to kill 'em. Otherwise they'll just do it again.

[nezumi]

I don't think I've ever seen such an evenly matched poll. 40 votes, almost perfectly split. One vote different and it would be 10/10/10/10.

*sigh*

Well, as its shaping up, the REAL player might actually be asking his buddies to help with the sting, which works, but the other guy is getting dumber. I think I might just give him a 'window of opportunity' to escape... directly into the firing arc of a man with an assault rifle. It might be less painful for everyone involved.

(And no, Eldritch, it's not you :P I'll put up a different poll for 'what should a mysterious monster leave implanted in my decker?')

[Sicarius]

maybe Lonestar is pressured by the Johnson to let him go.. only to walk right into the sights of the hitters brought in to clean up the mess.
But i don't know how powerful their Johnson was.

[hyzmarca]

Bail Hearing + 200,000 nuyen bond + yak or mafia loanshark + criminal record flaw + jailhouse gangrape = sufficiently traumatized runners, in my opinion.

[nezumi]

Their Johnson is a anti-metahuman policlub member out of Reston (or whatever that agragarian part of the city is) who hired them to steal some minor piece of technology that'll be used as a bomb.

Not really a super well-paid sort of guy, and unlikely to care for a keebler who dun got himself locked up.

[Mystweaver]

Put them up against a character beefed up with 700 karma or so... I can provide mine if ya want... they will all be dead in the initiative phase. :S

[Sicarius]

Ooh.. I'm thinking Policlub members in County finishing him off in a shower shivving.

cheaper that way.

[Critias]

[Eldritch]

[mmu1]

If you have the right kind of players , you should just let the dice fall where they may.

That doesn't mean you should make things as hard on them as you possibly could, given the circumstances - people sometimes get lucky breaks, after all, and if it helps the game run smoothly... However, once you decide how to respond to their actions, play things out to the logical outcome.

If your idea of what SR should be like is what they're looking for in a game, they'll learn from the mistakes and adapt.

On the other hand, if you're not on the same page when it comes to what you should expect from the game, taking it easy on them isn't going to help, unless you're willing to do that every time they get into trouble... because you shouldn't expect your players to change. It might happen, but counting on it is a mistake.

[Dragonscript]

I tend to be very forgiving with noobs if they are willing to learn. But if he killed 6 guards in cold blood for no reason then his character goes to jail and gets executed. He can always create a new one. It is a harsh lesson, but one that must be learned.

[Kagetenshi]

Yes. That you never stop after only six guards.

~J