 Quick Matrix questions, Agents, PAN, skinlink... |
 Oct 14 2005, 11:37 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,658  |
1) If you want three Rating 4 Agents running (eg, one out on a search, one helping you hack, and one in your commlink acting as IC) do you need to purchase 3 agents? Or do they act like all other software, and you only have to buy it once and run it many times?
2) Is it required to attach cyberware devices to your PAN for interoperability? I realize it says cyberware devices can talk to each other directly: SR4 p. 330 Cyberware In addition to wireless functionality, most cyberware devices are equipped with a direct neural interface (DNI) that allows the user to mentally activate and control their functions. They can also be linked to other cyberware implants. But what about a weapon's smartlink? Can it communicate directly with the user's imagelink and smartlink without needing to be routed through their PAN by their comlink? 3) And if that is the case, then could skinlink handle the connection? The Pistol's smartlink would be connected via skinlink, which would somehow connect to the imagelink and smartlink in their eye's? Thanks, milspec |
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Oct 14 2005, 11:42 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
I don't know on 1, but on 3, you can utilize skinlinking exactly like that, just fine. That's what it's for, really. |
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Oct 14 2005, 02:56 PM
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#3
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
For 1, considering how much more agents cost than anything else I'd allow it, though I might make you pay for a second agent to act as IC.
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Oct 14 2005, 03:27 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I've mentioned this elsewhere, so apologies to those hearing a broken record.
Before I go under the knife, I'd ask for all of my cyber to network using only DNI. I'm tempted to keep the old-fashioned hardwire interface for my gun and commlink, even. I ain't interested in being a network node. :) |
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Oct 14 2005, 03:41 PM
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#5
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Agreed. If I want to have foreign signals invading parts of my body--even if they are replacement parts--I'll plug 'em into a datajack.
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Oct 14 2005, 03:56 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
agents and IC work a little bit differently... i believe you could have an agent active and checking for problems, but i think you need IC to launch itself when there is a problem, agents have to be manually launched (or such is my understanding... that may be off...)
but anyways, you could certainly have an agent with attack, trace, or whatever active, and on patrol. you would just have to manually turn it on/off. or by some rating 1 IC to turn it on/off for you ;) |
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Oct 14 2005, 06:07 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
As I read things, Electronics by default are Wireless, but converting them to wired takes no extra money, just extra effort on your character's part. Say you are turning off the wireless capacity. Tell the Doctor not to include the parts that broadcast. You are done. Now, Skinlinks are another issue-they require special modifications in the cost of 50 :nuyen: . But wires are free. (Just troublesome at times)
Keep in mind though that Average Joe 2070 Probably jsut lets everything be wireless. He doesn't think in terms of security, but in terms of convienence. In fact, he leaves most devices wireless becausze it never occurs to him not too. So yeah, his cyberware has wireless connectivity, even though it doesn't need it. He never thought to turn it off. If you ask for non-wireless goods, they will be available, but the clerk may look at you funny and might contact the cops to report 'Suspicious activity". So yes, your cyber interacts with other cyber in your system without wireless connectivity. You can link other systems to your brain with physical conductors (Such as wires) through a datajack or trodes. This will keep you safer from hacking. Also remember that almost everything comes with an RFID tag these days. GET A TAG ERASER!!!!! This is the most vital peice of gear a runner needs. Without it anything they have on them is bradcasting. Granted, it's like a drop in the data bucket, and would be a pain in the ass to locate someone by the RFID of their clothes, but it is possible, so get rid of those tags. And don't think your Cyber comes tag free. I bet those damn corps put RFID, maybe even security grade RFID tags into all the cyber they produce. Twould be a pain if the cyber you tried so hard to make hacker-proof broadcasted on demand when the corps wanted. |
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Oct 14 2005, 11:57 PM
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#8
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Why? So I don't want my cybereyes to give me brain cancer by shooting me up with radio waves; that's not "suspicious" so much as "prudent". |
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Oct 15 2005, 02:19 AM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
besides... many shadowrunners will have gotten their cyberware through, shall we say, "non-standard" channels.
the shadowclinics don't care, and the corp/government clinics probably prefer it to not be wireless, so they wouldn't likely be looking at you funny, IMO. i think when the book says people look at you funny for wanting non-wireless stuff, it's talking about clothes, and vehicles and such, that you might buy at a normal store. |
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Oct 15 2005, 02:41 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
If that was the case, it wouldn't have explicitly mentioned that cyberware is wireless as well. If you are running cyber with wireless turned off, it will raise eyebrows. It won't get you arrested or anything, given that old style pre crash cyberware presumably still exists, and it won't be wireless, but it may let someone notice you when they otherwise might not But what does it matter, you have a DNI to most cyberware. Turn off wireless when you need it, turn it on when you need it. It doesn't make sense to restrict your options by removing it completely, /or/ by leaving it on all the time |
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Oct 15 2005, 02:48 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
no, my point is that given the usual place a shadowrunner will be buying cyberware, the people there are payed for not asking you for ID, a license, or any of that other stuff. what makes you think they're gonna raise eyebrows if you ask for non-wireless gear?
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Oct 15 2005, 02:53 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
Ah, sorry, I misread you. No, you're right, they're not going to care. What I was meaning is that say, a security drone hovering around Bellvue might care if you are walking through the middle of the burb with all of your wireless devices turned off :) |
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Oct 17 2005, 02:25 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,896 |
IC is just an Agent with a different name from everything I've read. You need to load them into the system the same. Although, I'm not sure I've seen any rules on loading Agents/IC on boot. I would assume it is something you can do easily though. The question would be whether or not the Agents/IC would be loaded before or after wireless connectivity of your commlink (or other device) was established. |
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Oct 17 2005, 02:36 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 338 Joined: 17-September 04 From: Pueblo Sector of Denver Member No.: 6,672 |
IC only starts running when it has detected an intruder. So in that respect it is a bit different from an agent. |
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Oct 17 2005, 03:31 PM
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#15
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Actually I think it's the Commlink's firewall that detects the intruder, then activates the IC in response. So I guess that's just a customizable part of the firewall:
As I see it, the way it works is that the user sets up what happens when the firewall detects an intruder. They can tell the user (who will usually send some kind of backup); they can reboot the machine; they can do all the other nifty things that are mentioned in the active alert section (p. 222-3), and/or they can activate an Agent to fight off the intruder. Agents activated by firewalls are callid IC; that seems to be the only difference. Now Pilots, those I suspect are different, though they are priced the same. Agents are coded to do Matrix work, while Pilots are coded to do drone work. And so you have to buy them seperately, but an Agent and an IC program is the same thing, differing only in the manner in which they are activated. That sound right? |
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Oct 17 2005, 03:37 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,896 |
"Activated" vs "run" vs "loaded" is causing confusion I think.
The firewall tells the IC/Agent to go after a particular user, but it isn't loading the IC/Agent right there on the spot (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong) because that would normally take time (don't have a page reference on me, but I believe it is a complex action). |
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Oct 17 2005, 03:45 PM
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#17
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Pilot is variant of System...
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Oct 17 2005, 04:11 PM
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#18
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
The opposite, I think. Here's the deal: IC is an Agent that is not running/loaded/activated until the Firewall tells it to activate. It doesn't count toward the maximum number of programs the Commlink can run before it slows down Response, and it doesn't perform any actions. IC is nothing more than an Agent program that is run/activated/loaded by the Firewall as soon as the Firewall detects an intruder. As an alternative, you can have Agents already patrolling your Commlink, actively searching for intruders. The downside here is that the Agents themselves are always running on your Commlink, taking up spots on your active program list and possibly lowering your Commlink's Response. The moral here is that Agents and IC are basically the same core programming, the only difference is the external issue of whether a user activated them (Agent) or the Commlink did in response to an intrusion (IC). It's kinda like how molten rock is called magma when it's below-ground, and lava when it's above-ground. |
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Oct 17 2005, 04:13 PM
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#19
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
That's Pilot as In "Pilot Rating". I'm talking about Pilot in terms of "Agents/IC/Pilot": the name of that type of program. Isn't it nice to know that SR4 isn't immune to using the same word to have multiple meanings? |
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Oct 17 2005, 04:20 PM
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#20
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Always was, always will. ;)
The Pilot software is installed instead of a System, though... not like Agents or IC, that run on a System. |
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Oct 17 2005, 05:27 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,896 |
Is there a page reference where it tells you that IC on your commlink don't count against your running programs?
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Oct 18 2005, 05:16 AM
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#22
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 4-October 05 From: Secret Underground Space Station Laboratory In Space Member No.: 7,809 |
So, you can see that an Agent running independantly of a persona on a given node is taking up system resources there. Even though you wouldn't bother counting it against other people's nodes ( :D ), it's probably safe to assume that an active agent inhabiting a commlink would take up Response. So you'd probably count them for Response slowdown, but not against a persona's program limit.
So, an active agent patrolling a commlink counts towards Response slowdown. An IC program which is not run until the Firewall tells it to doesn't count until it's launched. So a hacker who's running as many programs as they can without slowdown would experience a sudden slowdown if someone tried to hack into their commlink and their IC programs launched. EDIT: Whoops, Eyeless Blonde already covered this. More the redundancy me. :P What I want to know is: I figure that an Agent acts like any other software - buy once, run as many times as you like. But what about a given Agent's ability to handle types of hacking programs? Could I just buy a single Agent program then hand it different types of programs whenever I pleased? With that interpretation, I see potential for a single outlay of 12500:nuyen: buying me a program I can use wherever as an agent army AND IC... load it into my commlink, my cyberarms, et cetera... This post has been edited by Beowurk: Oct 18 2005, 05:22 AM |
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Oct 18 2005, 01:28 PM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
yeah, that sounds about right.
begins to make sense why corps aren't so bothered by the idea of having to defend wireless networks, doesn't it? protecting the network is cheap. much cheaper than having to renovate your building to install a system. |
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Oct 18 2005, 01:33 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,896 |
By that same token, it's also pretty cheap to mount an army of Agents attacking a corp host.
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Oct 18 2005, 02:01 PM
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#25
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Hell yes I would count it against someone else's Response. That's what you call a Denial of Service attack: you spawn a bunch of Agents on the other guy's node, slow him down to nothing, then pick him off at your leisure. :D |
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