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> House Rules, And various playtesting...
Xenith
post Oct 17 2005, 01:54 AM
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I've been running my current SR4 group with a few set of house rules. Some I've ajusted after a few months of play, while others I've newly added. The ones I've played tested work surprisingly well for both PC and NPC (though it generally applies far more to NPCs). I keep a close eye on Adept Improved Ability powers, too high (above 3 dice) and I tend to start messing with the adept quite a bit.

These are already in effect:

-Skills may be raised above 6, however all skills raised like this are at x4. I'm tossing around a limit of 9 for one skill in a group, 7 for all others, and 6 for skill groups. Attribute limits are most certainly still enforced. Learning a skill in this way requires a master of at least the new rating to teach it to him, without any benefits from instruction. (So "Deals with Dragons" and contracts with Free Spirits become a little more enticing for some characters.)

-Apitude expands this limit by one, and allows a rating 7 skill to be bought at x3.

-The cap for magic also applies to the base magic skill and skill groups. In the case of magic loss, the skill is not truly lowered, only temporarily lowered until the cap is raised by initiation. I'm thinking of having initiation allow the choice of either magic point cap raised or skill limit raised, rather than both.

These are new ones I'm thinking about:

-The dice granted from instruction to learn a skill (I'm going out on a limb and say Attribute+Skill, with hits reducing time by a bit) can instead be rolled on their own to reduce karma costs by one per success to a minimum of half (round up). I might add that instruction adds 1 die per 2 hits, so karma reductions are by no means large. This applies to skills only.

-Karma for Cash - 8000 per karma point, and visa-versa.

So what do you think and what other various house rules are out there? :)
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Clay Pigeon
post Oct 17 2005, 03:59 AM
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First off, for character creation, we use Secksy, with a few tweaks (clarifications, mostly) here and there.

QUOTE ("Xenith")
-Skills may be raised above 6, however all skills raised like this are at x4. I'm tossing around a limit of 9 for one skill in a group, 7 for all others, and 6 for skill groups. Attribute limits are most certainly still enforced. Learning a skill in this way requires a master of at least the new rating to teach it to him, without any benefits from instruction. (So "Deals with Dragons" and contracts with Free Spirits become a little more enticing for some characters.)

We haven't been playing long enough to know if this is a good idea or not, but I'm all for it. With the costs as they are, you might even be able to drop the cap altogether. If the player wants to shovel out 40 karma for one extra die... I say let 'em.

QUOTE
-The cap for magic also applies to the base magic skill and skill groups. In the case of magic loss, the skill is not truly lowered, only temporarily lowered until the cap is raised by initiation. I'm thinking of having initiation allow the choice of either magic point cap raised or skill limit raised, rather than both.

You hit a sore spot here. I am of the opinion that Initiation no longer belongs in the game. I've never been a fan of it, mostly because the Awakened are already way too fierce, but now, it serves no purpose at all. Just make Magic cost new rating*5, and let the player pick a metamagic when (s)he hits Magic 7+.

QUOTE
-The dice granted from instruction to learn a skill (I'm going out on a limb and say Attribute+Skill, with hits reducing time by a bit) can instead be rolled on their own to reduce karma costs by one per success to a minimum of half (round up). I might add that instruction adds 1 die per 2 hits, so karma reductions are by no means large. This applies to skills only.

Neat idea. This will actually make Instruction useful for mundanes. Just so it doesn't get out of hand, though, you might want to make the threshold the student's new skill rating. I think I might try this out.

QUOTE
-Karma for Cash - 8000 per karma point, and visa-versa.

I would be very hesitant to employ any kind of conversion between the two, my fellow players are far too clever, and would come up with some serious ways to abuse this. I like the idea, and there are some neat ways to rationalize it in game, but... dangerous.

QUOTE
So what do you think and what other various house rules are out there?

Here are a few changes I would like to make, but I'm not the main GM for our group, and these would piss off most players if implemented.
-Harshly penalize the Awakened for getting cyber/bio. I know, some people think it's cool to break from cliche's, but I've only ever seen this combination used for evil.
-Disallow the Physical Barrier spell. It's just way too versatile. I can't ever have the group chased by a helicopter, since they'll throw a barrier up and break the rotor. In fact, chase scenes in general are ruined by this spell.
-Mandate a computer dice roller. Several of my fellow players just can't seem to pick out and roll the correct number of dice in less than a minute. Then, it takes far too long to count out hits. God forbid Edge is involved, and the roll open-ends.
-Scrap Initiation, and make Magic Rating more expensive to improve, as I mentioned above.

I need to calm down a little. I'll post more later.
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Eyeless Blond
post Oct 17 2005, 06:06 AM
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QUOTE (Clay Pigeon)
-Harshly penalize the Awakened for getting cyber/bio. I know, some people think it's cool to break from cliche's, but I've only ever seen this combination used for evil.
They already lose a point of Magic, and a point off the attribute cap. That's pretty harsh already, considering how much more important Magic attribute is than it used to be.
QUOTE
-Disallow the Physical Barrier spell. It's just way too versatile. I can't ever have the group chased by a helicopter, since they'll throw a barrier up and break the rotor. In fact, chase scenes in general are ruined by this spell.
*shrug* To each his own, I guess. The problem with the physical barrier spell at the moment is it's so weak that the rotors would probably tear through the barrier without a problem. At least that's how I hear it; I haven't had a chance to look through the barrier rules very well yet..
QUOTE
-Scrap Initiation, and make Magic Rating more expensive to improve, as I mentioned above.

Actually what I'd go with is allowing initiation, but don't allow it to add to your Magic attribute maximum. This further enforces your harsh penalties for cyber-mages, because they can no longer initiate out of Magic loss for cyber (especially since Initiate Grade is capped at your Magic Attribute, which double-hits a cyber-mage for every point of lost Essence), and it helps cap the power of magic, as everything else is already capped.

(Edit) And yes, SECKSy is very sexy. :) I'm trying to get the creator to get the system hosted on Dumpshock, or at least post something on the community dev subforum. That system is an *almost* perfect karma chargen system IMO; a little more and it'll be more popular than BeCKS was for SR3.
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Feshy
post Oct 17 2005, 06:19 AM
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QUOTE
-Disallow the Physical Barrier spell. It's just way too versatile. I can't ever have the group chased by a helicopter, since they'll throw a barrier up and break the rotor. In fact, chase scenes in general are ruined by this spell.


You think it's abusive now, you should have seen 2nd edition, under which most of my SR campaigns took place. "Barrier" had text to the effect of "The magician can make the wall into any shape." Thankfully, in later editions this was removed, so you don't have to hear suggestions of making "Twisty slide" or "Staircase" shapes...

And the 2nd ed. "Mana Barrier" was even worse -- it stopped living matter only. Go-gangs where the laughing stock of SR2, and riding a motorcycle was completely suicidal (instead of just partially like it is normally). Well, at least until 4th Ed, where riding a motorcycle actually now gives you bonus dice to dodge tests...

Anyway, you can usually counter the chase-ending Physical Barrier spell. It should definately NOT be automatic to end a chase, ESPECIALLY in open air like a helicopter chase. I mean, it's a crackling wall of energy, it's not hard to see and thus avoid! spell casting is a very involved process, so it seems unlikely you could place a spell in a chase situation "unavoidably close" to a pursuer. Personally, if I had to house rule it, I'd say if it comes up that often in chase scenes, just have the chasers roll a crash test to avoid it, with a threshold based on speed and how confined the area is (if the barrier fills most of the street, it will be much more difficult than open air). And of course, if the entire path to the runners is blocked, the crash test is simply to avoid crashing. Apply the caster's successes as a negative modifier to this crash test -- a skilled caster can probably form the barrier much closer to the target than a novice.

So long as you don't let your players place the barrier millimeters from the target under chase conditions, it isn't an issue. Also, escort helicopters with astral Air Elementals (Air Spirits) with held actions -- they'll get a free shot at taking down that barrier, acting as they are at astral speeds. Even if they don't take it down, it will weaken the barrier, maybe enough for the rotors to take it (Those rotors will take off a person's head without a second thought, and obviously have to be able to withstand bird impacts. They can take at least SOME punishment.)

On the other hand, overcasting the barrier spell in a crowded street at high speed is still (and should be!) chase-ending for anything that can't survive the crash relatively unscathed.
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Xenith
post Oct 17 2005, 04:21 PM
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Technically you probably could still use barrier in a similar manner even now... but with far less flexibility. Thanks for the idea by the way... I never thought of using it that way. :)

Are there other house rules that are invasive as mine are? I'd just like to see whats out there. :)
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Eyeless Blond
post Oct 17 2005, 04:31 PM
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There's a really interesting set by Serbitar; a simple search for his posts should come up with it pretty quickly. A lot of little rule fixes, plus a karma chargen system that I think with just a little more refinement could become the new BeCKS.
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