Alternate traditions, ie: stop cluttering up the forums. Options

[PlatonicPimp]

By popular request. Use this here thread to give your ideas for new (or converted) traditions a round in the spotlight.

[Azralon]

Yay, my requests are popular!

C'mere, Frank, we made a playground for ya.

[Chandon]

[Azralon]

What, the "Shadowrun 4: Magic" thread? Or the "Converting Old Traditions" thread?

I'm not trying to slam our ever-imaginative Frankie; there are other folks who are posting alternative traditions too. This'd just keep it all in one place for ease of reference.

[PlatonicPimp]

Plus all the "Review my new tradition" threads.

[FrankTrollman]

I'm perfectly fine to put "new" traditions here, and the "old" traditions in the "Converting Old Traditions" thread. That would be a good way to split it up.

So if someone cares, things that have previously had a write-up in SR like Tir Path Magic and Psionics can be written into the Converting thread and any genre of magic that people want ported into Shadowrun like Leyaks or Tantrics can be written up here.

That being said, if anyone wants a write-up of either type, I'll do requests in the appropriate thread.

-Frank

[PlatonicPimp]

Well, continuing what was going on in the magic forum: Wouldn't Jean grey, during the pheonix saga, actually find out she Isn't and Aspected mage and can summon fire spirits to possess her?

Next tradition: Jurai power from tenchi muyo.

Heck, why not just do regular shinto as well? (Pepoole might find that useful, instead of our sillyness.)

[Veggiesama]

Couldn't someone just, like, start a Wikipedia-esque site for traditions, house rules, etc. like that one NPC database? I always found forums to be great for their search functions, but organizing lists of "things" (like new guns, traditions, cyberware) doesn't work too well, as they're on a first-post, first-view organization.

edit: That's also the reason I don't bother with those 10-20 page long "general" threads. If you haven't been paying attention since the start, why bother?

[PlatonicPimp]

You get right on that then.

[FrankTrollman]

Juraian Power runs on attractiveness as much as anything, so Charisma as a drain resistance stat is a no-brainer. That's why Tenchi and Tsunami have the most Jurai Power and Yosho and Ayeka have relatively less Jurai Power they can channel.

Juraians cannot astrally project (except for Tsunami), and are in almost all cases Mystic Adepts. Spells are preferred to be Light or Plant based in their net effect, and combat spells other than Indirect Light Spells are not used.

Juraians summon spirits that materialize. Recognized Spirits are:

Warrior - Combat
Plant - Manipulation
Man - Illusion
Ancestor - Health
Water - Detection

Juraian Magic uses slightly psuedo-scientific trappings backed up by using lots and lots of wood in just about every way you can think of. A Juraian lodge looks like a computer lab or a bonsai garden or both.

Example: Washuu (a powerful Juraian Mystic Adept with the Crab Mentor Spirit) binds a powerful spirit of man, granting it additional powers of inate spell: Laser, and Psychokinesis. She puts this spirit on a longterm service of guarding an area. Later, Tenchi (a powerful Juraian Mystic Adept with the Great Tree mentor spirit) encounters this spirit while exploring a cave and combat ensues. Tenchi puts up a spirit barrier, and the spirit begins attacking the barrier. Tenchi then begins banishing the Spirit, succeeds, and then takes the opportunity to take control of the spirit before it departs. Now this spirit follows Tenchi around whether he likes it or not.

-Frank

[Veggiesama]

[PlatonicPimp]

Sorry, that's just kinda something that needs to be done by someone with computer sills, and just posting a general "Someone should do this" struck me as kinda like saying "y'know, we should really have flying cars by now. Why doesn't someone make those?" But I apologize for the patronizing tone.

And the example of the spirit of man for the Jurain tradition? :rotfl:

[Gothic Rose]

[PlatonicPimp]

Anyway, I have 2 new traditions I've been thinking of. I don't have good names yet, but here they go:

Chaos Urbana Mage:

These magicians are branch of the hermetic tradition that beleive that, while the scientific approach to magic is a good thing, the traditional hermetic is hidebound by ancient texts and narrow minded views. They beleive that magic comes from the Zietgeist, the spirit of the times, and they seek to tap into that chaotic modern energy for their magic. Metahumanity in all it's raw, technological glory is the source of this spirit, not the flawed beleifs of ancient cultures nor the forces of the natural world.

They resist drain with Will + Logic

They are a manifesting tradition (See franktrollman's rules in converting old traditions)

Combat -- Warrior Spirits. These often appear as featureless soldiers or police, or as combat vehicles.
Detection -- Spirits of Man. Mankind is everywhere, at least, everywhere that matters, and those with a link to the spirit of man can know all that man knows. Spirits of man appear as the random people out of the crowd that make a city, like street vendors and homeless, but with a certian mysterious presence that makes their nature apparent.
Health -- Ancestor Spirits. No one is more concerned aout the health and well being of an individual than their ancestors.
Illusion -- Electricity spirits. These often manifest as complicated light shows or other flashy neon effects.
Manipulation -- Worker Spirits. These often manifest as featureless technicians or repairmen. If your Trid breaks down, summon up one of these.


Also: Elementalists:

Elementalists beleive that the forces, or elements, that make up the universe are the true source of power. All magic harnesses this energy in one way or another. By taking this energy into oneself and converting it through will, you cast spells. One does not channel "Mana", but "Fire" or "Stone". Should the mood strike you, you can even let the raw force of the elements take control, using your body as a vessel for their will.

Elementalists resist drain with willpower + intution. Their magic comes neither from study nor from communication or leadership. Their is only will and feeling when manipulation the raw forces.

Elementalists are a Possession Tradition. (See Franktrollmans's rules in converting old traditions. Really, they are awesome.) As a guideline they do not bind spirits, though if they did they would use the same rules as all other possession traditions.

Combat -- Fire spirits. The forces of fire are the rage of the universe manifest.
Detection -- Air spirits : There is nowhere life exists where Air is not. Air sees all.
Health -- Earth Spirits: Earth is the bounty that sustains us, the rock that supports us. Without it we cannot be.
Ilusion -- Spirits of Man. The power of life cannot be denied, but mankind is also the source of all lies. Most elementalists distain illusions and spirits of man.
Manipulation -- Water Spirits: Water is the ever-changing froce that shapes the universe.


By the way, electricity spirits are the same as fire spirits, only change the elemental effects of their powers to electricity effects.

[Doc Byte]

Uh, better put that in the other topic.

This post has been edited by Doc Byte: Oct 21 2005, 12:04 AM

[PlatonicPimp]

Put What in the other topic? It's not a converted old tradition, it's a new tradition, so it obviously belongs here.

I use the rules Franktrollman presented because they are GOOD, and because without Some expansion to the current rules there is too little variation.

[FrankTrollman]

[PlatonicPimp]

Oh. My misunderstanding. then. Apologies

[FrankTrollman]

OK, so there was a request for Shinto:

Shinto is essentially Animism from Japan. Like any "religion" where you worship the spirits that happen to live in your house, there are a lot of discrepencies between how it is practiced in different places. Shinto calls spirits "Kami", and that is variously translated as both "Spirit" and "God". In Shadowrun terms, those are Spirits.

Unlike the Hermetic tradition which is based on rules and science, or the shamanic tradition which is based on bargaining and expression, Shinto magic is essentially a giant game of hide and seek. The kami are already all around you, and what you need to do is go out and find them. Shinto is based on Intuition.

Different branches of Shinto pay reverence to just about anything you can think of: cool looking trees, the Japanese head of state, huge model penises, pristine lakes, whatever. It's there. So limitting it down to just five spirit types is tough - for any spirit you exclude, you will be able to find a branch of Shinto that considers that type of spirit to be paramount. As such, the best you can do is write up a Shinto magic set, for it is literally impossible to write up the Shinto magic set.

Shinto is a Materialization Tradition, and supports Aspected and Full Magicians. Shinto adepts are also encouraged (especially by Renraku and the Imperial Army). Shinto practitioners resist drain with Willpower and Intuition. A common (but by no means universal) spirit assignment for Shinto is:

Combat Spells - Air Spirits
Detection Spells - Fire Spirits
Health Spells - Ancestor Spirits
Illusion Spells - Water Spirits
Manipulation Spells - Plant Spirits

Many other spirits and spell category assignments are used by various Shinto magicians, essentially creating new traditions altogether. These magicians are recognized as fellow Shinto magicians, and freely participate in rituals with other practitioners.

-Frank

[JesterX]

Can someone make a good Wicca tradition? I havn't seen one so far...

I guess that the drain will be resisted by Willpower+Intuition since Wiccan's usually make their rituals with associations and symbologies.

However, I have some trouble with the spirit types..

Beast, Man, Air, Fire and Earth perhaps?

[FrankTrollman]

Wicca, like Shinto, is actually a collection of viewpoints which are very different from each other. Wicca does not have a book, or a founding teacher, or any other thing that could be considered a final word on anything. Wiccan magic runs the line from scientifically rigorous herbalism to atavistically harnessing raw emotions to attempt to unbalance events.

Wicca can be divided into several competing threads, which consider different things important. Mechanistically, this breaks into three important game distinctions:

Intuition Casters: NightmareX has a good write-up of these guys here. This kind of magic is distinguished by an attention to the details of the natural world, coupled with an idea that magic happens when you allow yourself to "go with the flow".

Charisma Casters: This is where the Wiccans who make a big deal about the differences between White Magick and Black Magick are, regardless of which one it is that they do. This kind of magic centers on the emotions of the magician, and has a great deal of rotes that are designed to alter the emotional state of the user. You can also find a great plethorae of Dianists and Spiral Dancers in this camp.

Logic Casters: This is where the herbalists and other more "scientifically inclined" Wiccans fit in. There is a thread running through Wiccan thought that pretty much anything you do that has effects, has effects because of Magic. These magicians often have "spell books", where they keep notes on the performances of different rituals.

----

In terms of spirit associations, that is also open for a bit of question. The Wiccans from last edition specifically described the "Fern Witches" or "Fairy Wiccans", who use the spirits of Air, Earth, Water, Fire, and Wood. This is pretty much the same as Hermeticism, except that you replace Spirits of Man with Plant Spirits, and you use Intuition for Drain instead of Logic.

But there are lots of Wiccans, and lots of magical setups. Most of them are Materialization Traditions, and I don't know of any that use Man or Warrior Spirits. But there are examples that make use of Air, Ancestor, Beast, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water, and Worker Spirits. Just no individual Wiccan Mage is able to use all eight.

-Frank

[PlatonicPimp]

I'll give this a shot, since I was a member of my colleges wiccan/pagan alliance for several years.

Wiccanism, which is a subset of paganism, is a little more specific than Franktrollman alludes to. While his description is great, he is actually describing Modern Paganism, of which wiccanism is one of the versions.

Wiccanism holds to the four classical elements of fire, water earth and air. These are associated with the four directions, the four tarot suits, certain emotions, certain strengths and weaknesses, etc. (Though which element goes with can be a point of contention between some practicioners.) More than that, though, they hold to the goddess, in her three forms of the maiden, the mother and the crone. To a lesser extent they also worship the god, a male diety, but most often in his role as the goddesses husband in the form of the lord and lady. sometimes tehy work together, sometimes they don't. If you haven't caught on, the religion worships these two gods, but in many forms, sort of like the way all gods are one in Hindu. There is also a heavy focus on cycles, of the year, of death and rebirth, of generations.

Religious festivals fall on the equinoxes and solstices, as well as teh four midpoints in between. There is a strong focus on forming circles, in which members of the circle take on different roles, often teh aformentioned elements. These rituals are traditionally performed Skyclad, which is a reverent way of saying In the Buff. It is important ot note that, like shinto, Wiccanism is a Religion as well as a magical tradition. If you need any more than that go hit the books, i'm not really qualified to go into it. Though I might suggest Alan Moore's Promethia series for a decent example of wiccan-like beliefs in a shadowrunny setting.

Wiccanism, despite having a strong background in magical lore, is an Intuition tradition.

The elementals here have been assigned to the most appropriate spell catagory, but for a wiccan, it might be more appropriate to allow an elemental to provide bonuses to learn any spell which falls under their sphere of influence, instead of by spell catagory. For example, fire is associated with passion and strong emotion, positive or negative. Though it's spirits are linked to combat spells, they might also have domain over the Control emotions spell.

Combat Spells - Fire (Strong emotions, passion. Emotional + Visionary.)
Detection Spells - Air (the higher thoughts, the mind. Intellect + visionary)
Health Spells - Earth (Weath, health and stability. Intellect + Practical)
Illusion Spells - Water ( Deep emotions, intuition. Emotional+Practical)
Manipulation Spells - Plants (Most manipulation spells would be accomplished through herbalism, though I'm kinda reaching here because wiccans only hold to four elements.)

[Doc Byte]

[JesterX]

[NightmareX]

Ninja magic tradition