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> is a shadows of africa book do-able?!, THIS IS JUST AN OPEN QUESTION
boskop-albatros
post Oct 19 2005, 03:36 AM
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if any one is interested in giving their thoughts on what they think a shadows of africa source book would be like please go ahead; it is about time that shadowrun had a world map. If anyone responds to this I will give a deep disertation on how I think africa would be layed out in the Sixth World, but it would be cool if any one would share their ideas too. :rotate:
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Fortune
post Oct 19 2005, 04:45 AM
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Let's see your dissertation. ;) :)
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FrankTrollman
post Oct 19 2005, 06:13 AM
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OK, it does seem weird that the world's fifth largest megacity doesn't even get a wink in the official write-ups. That's right Lagos, Nigeria is in 2005 in the top five largest megacity on Earth, edging out Rio-Paulo and Los Angeles. Of course those other urban areas don't get a lot of coverage either - and what coverage they do receive doesn't make a lot of sense.

But Lagos has nearly 20 million people and has controlling interest in one of the larger resevoires of fossil fuels outside the Middle East. It's important globally today, and in a world with no US or China, its importance would be magnified. In my home campaign, I relocated Asamundo there from fraggin Burkina Faso and made it a major player internationally.

Makes for good theatre - the city is called "The Lagos Necropolis" and is run by ghouls. It has one of the largest ghost populations anywhere, but vampires are outlawed and the country is at open war with the Wendigos of the world (whose favorite food is metahumans who have eaten other metahuman flesh). In 2005, Lagos is the home of the Nigerian Stock Exchange, as well as being an entire province all by itself. It's also home to one of the most diverse tribal makeups of any city in Africa - meaning that post Awakening it's one the areas that is most likely to retain government by a national rather than tribal authority. In 2070, I have it being a police state where incinerating the dead is a crime.

-Frank
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Backgammon
post Oct 19 2005, 05:08 PM
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Search function is your friend
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snowRaven
post Oct 19 2005, 09:52 PM
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Cyberpirates

that book is basically an 'Shadows of Africa' book, with some added stuff for the caribbean and the phillipines.
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Ancient History
post Oct 19 2005, 09:58 PM
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Thank you Frank, for regaling us once again with "How my campaign makes more sense than the standard Shadowrun setting we all know and reference."

I would expect more on africa in the future. Parts of it have been covered before in different places, but considering it contains at least two Awakened states, the mass driver, Madagascar, the Gold and Ivory Coast and the sur-Saharan states of classical antiquity, I think more will definately be done there.
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FrankTrollman
post Oct 19 2005, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Thank you Frank, for regaling us once again with "How my campaign makes more sense than the standard Shadowrun setting we all know and reference."

Why do people talking about what they filled holes in the Shadowrun storyline with fill you with such animosity? Lagos is a huge city, and the designers have said precisely dick about it. Busting out the sarcastic barbs because someone had a storyline involving it is just plain bizzare.

If my ideas don't float your boat, fine. You don't have to use them, just don't be a cock about it.

-Frank
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JongWK
post Oct 20 2005, 03:30 PM
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Some people here might want to keep an eye on upcoming books.
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Ancient History
post Oct 20 2005, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE
Why do people talking about what they filled holes in the Shadowrun storyline with fill you with such animosity? Lagos is a huge city, and the designers have said precisely dick about it. Busting out the sarcastic barbs because someone had a storyline involving it is just plain bizzare.

I'm not busting you for having a storyline involving something never covered. I'm giving you a hard time because your means of conveying that storyline were derogatory and because you fell into the all-too-common "Well in my game..." crap trap, which frankly bugs the living shit out of me. "I moved Asamando." Pfft.

QUOTE
If my ideas don't float your boat, fine. You don't have to use them, just don't be a cock about it.

-Frank

Ah, and here I thought that was my line.
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boskop-albatros
post Oct 20 2005, 05:59 PM
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:wobble: This is Boskop-albatros again, SO there is no arguement why dosen't wiz-kids keep asamondo where it is and divide the admittingly HUGE CITY OF LAGOS-which has offically had nothing written about it and divide it into a Ghoul side of town and a UNINFECTED side of town; the first days of the sixth world in africa were propably NOT TOO PREATTY, but it is probably by 2070 just getting better-there were possibly Ghoul outbeaks in many nations and now that things are settling down the ghouls are now going to have to try to find away to get along with UNINFECTED people :wobble:
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Backgammon
post Oct 20 2005, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (boskop-albatros)
:wobble: This is Boskop-albatros again, SO there is no arguement why dosen't wiz-kids keep asamondo where it is and divide the admittingly HUGE CITY OF LAGOS-which has offically had nothing written about it and divide it into a Ghoul side of town and a UNINFECTED side of town; the first days of the sixth world in africa were propably NOT TOO PREATTY, but it is probably by 2070 just getting better-there were possibly Ghoul outbeaks in many nations and now that things are settling down the ghouls are now going to have to try to find away to get along with UNINFECTED people :wobble:

I strongly disgree with everything in your post.
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boskop-albatros
post Oct 20 2005, 07:29 PM
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:cyber: OK then what other suggestions does anyone have for Lagos in the sixth world? I'd figue that Nigeria it self has had to be Reconstructed and may not even be in as good of shape as a reconstructed Central African Repuplic or DRC; So anyone got any ideas for Just Nigeria in the Sixth World? :cyber:
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FrankTrollman
post Oct 20 2005, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE
I'm not busting you for having a storyline involving something never covered. I'm giving you a hard time because your means of conveying that storyline were derogatory and because you fell into the all-too-common "Well in my game..." crap trap, which frankly bugs the living shit out of me.


Honestly, I don't give two shits whether that bugs the living shit out of you. Never have, and I'm not really intending to start any time soon. Shadowrun has been going for 16 years, and is sort of supposed to be a shared world experience. Unfortunately, since we don't all share a hive mind, that's wildly impractical.

My own campaign had a Ghoul Nation with its capital in Lagos since well before Cyber Pirates came out, and while it wasn't called "Asamundo", it was close enough that it makes no odds. From my standpoint, porting things from Cyber Pirates into my home game Lagos is a concession to shared continuity, but home game continuity always has to come first.

And thus, when I talk about something from my home continuity, I mark it as such so that people don't get confused and think it's from "official" continuity. To say anything at all about Lagos (fifth largest city on the planet), I have to mark it with text that describes it as being a house rule, because there is no official description of it even in passing anywhere.

So having you go off on me for doing the polite thing and marking my statements as being based or not based on written source material (and why), is out-the-window crazy talk. If you'd rather that people didn't offer ideas for things to put in important blank spaces on the map, you'd better get off a message board, because that's pretty much what it is for. If you'd rather that people who offer said ideas put no disclaimers that such ideas were home submissions rather footnotes from obscure sourcebooks - then you're just plain nuts.

---

A note on Ghoul Nations in general:

A ghoul who gets their share of various corpses can subsist on essentially one whole metahuman body per ghoul every 2 years. Assuming that your Ghoul Nation can successfully distribute one body in every 4 for eating (meaning three out of four are lost in the wilderness, swept out to sea, unrecoverably chemically burned, or hidden by relatives), and the life expectancy in the area is 50 years, that the ghoul population can be supported in a stable fashion indefinately if ghouls are no more than 1% of the populace. If the government can snatch half the corpses for eating, that goes up to 2%, and at 75% of the bodies the ghoul population can be 3%. That means that if you use the Cyberpirates claim of Ghoul-Controlled Burkina Faso (real-world population 13 million), the ghoul population could be as much as 390,000 without doing anything fancy at all.

Of course, ghouls can eat cloned tissue if that's what they want to do. Using old clunky (and probably very cheap) 2050s cloning vats, you can make a human leg in 8 weeks. Human legs don't keep that well once they've been gnawed on, but that means that with 8 cloning vats going you can keep 24 ghouls going forever. Essentially, as long as you have cloning capacity equal to 1/3 of your ghoul population, you don't even need the humans to drop dead.

And that's not home campaign stuff - that's official write-ups of ghouls, cloning, and the reality of the actual place that they placed that country in Cyber Pirates.

-Frank
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Ancient History
post Oct 20 2005, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE
Honestly, I don't give two shits whether that bugs the living shit out of you. Never have, and I'm not really intending to start any time soon.

That's your perogative man.

QUOTE
If you'd rather that people didn't offer ideas for things to put in important blank spaces on the map, you'd better get off a message board, because that's pretty much what it is for.

My preference - and it is only that - is that I /don't/ want to hear about how "My world is different from canon, becuase canon is stupid." It's vain, if nothing else, and frankly most of it is derivative. If you want to flesh out Lagos, I'm not gonna bust you on it. Hell, if you want to tell everyone about how you fleshed out Lagos in your game, I'm not gonna bust you on it. What I don't want to hear is you explaining how your game is different from canon especially when you're just bucking canon because you don't like what's written.

Every campaign goes off of canon at some point. It's so bloody obvious that posting your Nth variation on how it happened in your campaign is worthless.

Minor nitpick:
QUOTE
Of course, ghouls can eat cloned tissue if that's what they want to do.

It has been suggested that a ghoul's dietary needs somehow involve the metahuman aura, hence cloned parts may or may not work.

QUOTE
The source of most people's hatred for ghouls comes from their preference for eating human corpses. They must consume approximately 1 percent of their body weight in metahuman flesh per week in order to maintain their health and get needed nutrition, but the bulk of a ghoul's diet may be any other kind of raw flesh. Ghouls find cooked meat indigestible; it can make them ill, just as raw meat does so many metahumans...Scientists have not yet managed to isolate the exact chemicals present in metahuman flesh that ghouls need to survive; a popular theory maintains that the ghouls' need for metahuman flesh has something to do with its metaphysical aura.
(ucas, 99)(src3, 32)
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Backgammon
post Oct 20 2005, 09:01 PM
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1) If you want to talk about Ghoul Nation, post in this thread, after having read this thread, or you're gonna waste time going over what's already been gone over by Dumpshockers (or resume things here)

2) Lagos, like anything in Central Afirca, is probably a non-concern at this point. Nigeria doesn't exist anymore. Such a city, although it would have been reduced to nothing by VITAS and subsequent complete lack of restoration efforts by any sort of organised group (the local gov having collapsed and international attention diverted), wouldn't be of any international concern, as in it would export nor import nothing. If it were a 20 million ghoul or vampire city, it would have been nuked off the face of the earth. A more likely setting is something that does not attract attention: much lower population of wealth-deprived people. That can still leave enough room to make the place interesting.
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kryton
post Oct 20 2005, 09:35 PM
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Yeah know what? Who cares. If you want to use a Country that may or may not then go for it. To say that X would happen or Y would happen is totally meaningless. You don't know. There's so much we don't know about VITAS and the other plauges. Do certain folks have a natural immunity, could the awakening introduce a natural awakening. There has never been a specific map of how Vitas spread, the mortality levels in different areas, and if certain folks survived it because they had an immunity. As far as I can tell with the first plauge 10% of the world pop. died, second plauge 25% roughly died. Certain poor areas were hit hard? I'm not sure though, I don't think there's a "CURE" for Vitas? I think possibly a spell might help but if you catch it there's not a magic cure? One thing in human history is that those who survive a plauge A. are carriers, and B. have a resistence thus small pox and other disease spread throughout the Americas during the age of exploration. That seems more logical than saying that X would wipe everybody out.....

Ghouls are not all insane. Hell you can play a character who's a ghoul. Sure you like flesh but hey if you can trade internationally ghouls make cheap labor. Wars come and go but I would doubt the city would just disapear. Cities in the last 500 years are pretty stagnat. The borders could change and will but the ports and cities stay. We need to keep the lines of communication open. If you have a good idea then go with it. I don't think because it's against canon you should be quiet. Of course there's stuff about SR that flat out doesn't make sense. Tons of stuff. I tend to use because I run lots of games at cons but alternate ideas are what makes for good content. Even if it's been discussed before why not discuss it again. Just because it was discussed by group A doesn't mean a new group of folks won't have a different idea. I personally find reading lots of threads boring and sometimes confusing, maybe another thread would be more interesting.

Hell if you've got freaking Aliens with fireballs landing from Mars post something. Sure if it's cheesy, but if you don't like it don't read that thread. Let's face the NAN nations are cheese. 4,000,000 Indians (Beaura of Vital Statistics: Census 2000 PHC-T-18. American Indian and Alaska Native Tribes in the United States: 2000) verses 300,000,000 Americans your not going to wind. I don't care how much magic you have ultimately your hosed. But yeah known NAN's hear to stay no matter how cheesy I think it is, I still use it. I've had friends with althernate histories and they're games were alot of fun. So keep the lines of communication open. This is an open forum and if you want to say "My campaign is better than the standard SR because..." go for it. This is a free and open forum. Unless Adam asks otherwise no one has the right to try and silence someone ultimately.
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boskop-albatros
post Oct 21 2005, 03:02 AM
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Ok this is Bos-Al, This is the beginning of the serious stuff now-THE Tibest Mts in Northern Chad Has a last eruption unknown Volcano- Emi Koussi 3415 M high And TWO active Volacanos, Pic Tousside 3265 M high, And Soborom 3100 M high-----OK OK----- I don't want to be too radical But have you ever wondered where another Great form Sirrash Was?? :nuyen: :twirl: :nuyen: :twirl:

Also shouldn't there be a African equivalent of Chief Daniel Howling Coyote- A Man who uses Post-apocyalptic Magic To Unite The Different Tribes AND even Meta-Types in At least one good multi county stretch of territory After The Horiffying **VITAS** PULAGUES ____ how ever that is might then blame the New Power the CORPS!/ [AS IN EVIL INTERNATIONALISTS!!!ELITES THINNING THE POPULATION OF Planet EARTH!!!!!!!!]..........sO THEN THERE will be No Mega corps at ALL...This will be a Muti-racial, Muti-metatype, MAGICAL Libratarian Solcialist state, So I suggest Trans-Namibia_Kalahari_Botswana_----This is Also where the boskop live; They are S.W. Africian Magical Pirates who live on the Skeleton Coast(Heavy dune desert) of what is now Namibia :rotate: :wobble: :rotate: :wobble:
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SL James
post Oct 21 2005, 03:30 AM
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QUOTE (kryton)
But yeah known NAN's hear to stay no matter how cheesy I think it is, I still use it. I've had friends with althernate histories and they're games were alot of fun. So keep the lines of communication open. This is an open forum and if you want to say "My campaign is better than the standard SR because..." go for it. This is a free and open forum. Unless Adam asks otherwise no one has the right to try and silence someone ultimately.

I like what you say, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter sir.

Having attempted a full rewrite of SR's history, it... don't bother. I like aliens though. That was an amusing image. I rather like Frank's ideas. They sound pretty neat.
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Velocity
post Oct 21 2005, 03:52 AM
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QUOTE (boskop-albatros)
Ok this is Bos-Al, This is the beginning of the serious stuff now-THE Tibest Mts in Northern Chad Has a last eruption unknown Volcano- Emi Koussi 3415 M high And TWO active Volacanos, Pic Tousside 3265 M high, And Soborom 3100 M high-----OK OK----- I don't want to be too radical But have you ever wondered where another Great form Sirrash Was?? :nuyen: :twirl: :nuyen: :twirl:

Also shouldn't there be a African equivalent of Chief Daniel Howling Coyote- A Man who uses Post-apocyalptic Magic To Unite The Different Tribes AND even Meta-Types in At least one good multi county stretch of territory After The Horiffying **VITAS** PULAGUES ____ how ever that is might then blame the New Power the CORPS!/ [AS IN EVIL INTERNATIONALISTS!!!ELITES THINNING THE POPULATION OF Planet EARTH!!!!!!!!]..........sO THEN THERE will be No Mega corps at ALL...This will be a Muti-racial, Muti-metatype, MAGICAL Libratarian Solcialist state, So I suggest Trans-Namibia_Kalahari_Botswana_----This is Also where the boskop live; They are S.W. Africian Magical Pirates who live on the Skeleton Coast(Heavy dune desert) of what is now Namibia :rotate: :wobble: :rotate: :wobble:

:rotfl: I love this guy!
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boskop-albatros
post Oct 21 2005, 04:42 PM
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Boskop-albatross Again

This is now the dissertation on ALL counties in africa-I will cover Wild Lands/Awakened Zones later--so I won't be talking about any Great Form Sirrashes Right now.

The counties of Africa will fall into 4 categories: Survivors-counties that made it though the VITAS pluages and the Awakening with out major reconstruction or a Name change/alteration: Reconstructed Counties-These are Nation States not too different from the borders and names in our real world's timeline, but to survive in the sixth world had to under go BIG changes (Azainia is a example of this type): Coporate Backed states-some of these states have used the corps to invest in then to rebuild and have been able to keep at least a decent sembalence of Soverenty; while others, the **Small counties mostly ** have been compleatly overwhelmed by The Mega-Corps: And last is TOTAL BRAKEDOWN- some areas of Africa will be Ultra-dangerous Anarchy zones with no government at all (basicaly just an area of the world with a Z or above[as in ZZ or a even ZZZ] security rating.

Survivors: Just Angola and Ethiopia & maybe Eritera-The First two were mentioned in The novel Shadowboxer like they actually had some up-to-date industry (about the only thing that novel was good for), Such as a Matrix Presence-So Luanda and Addis Abbiba Data Havens Would be cool-Also Angola's new name may be The Union of Angola and Cabinda, Cabinda is an enclave separated from the rest of Angola by the DRC, it has Oil and wants idependance of course-Angola would let the corps have a presence there so they could Possibly give Jobs to the people to basicly buy them off; that probably won't work so then you just have an anti-corp rebellion in an enclave that is right next to what has become of the DRC;COULD be some big smuggling Oppertunities There. Eritera will probably find some way to stay idependant of Ethiopia, they will possibly be at least somewhat Super-nationalist, especially if ethiopia does all it's port trade though CORP-RUN Djbouti (more on Djbouti later)-More to come :cyber:
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boskop-albatros
post Oct 21 2005, 05:44 PM
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:cyber: Reconstructed States- This one will be longer-Azainia is all ready known, but in the lost years (2066-2070) may have changed slightly-Don't know what happend to Lesotho's people when it got swollowed up by Azainia & And I'm expecting that That The Swazi's might of wanted a redress of grivences durring the second crash years

The afor mentioned Trans-Namibia-Kalahari-Botswana-Untied the Bantu and Koi-koi[bushmen] peoples in a Magical Revolution durring the awakening-kinda the Africa version of Yakut, just not quite as nuts-will probably be agitating for the Koi-Koi of the western cape to join them and saying that Azaina is Still under Racial and Metatype oppresion

Forgot to mention Gabon yet-probably is one of the more stable counties in Africa, Liberville it's capitol is possibly a big city with alot of corp action-but with Large national parks Gabon will have alot of Awakened wilderness too

The Community of Mozambique- loose federal system to cope with big political polerization-but if the investment pours into Maputo that will hopefully keep the country together

Kingdom of Zambia-I saw it mentioned somewhere about Zambia in the sixth world going back to a monarchy-I agee with that but a constitional monarchy like in the UK would probably work best

Tanzania-has most likely been reconstructed-as in reserected-But Zanzibar most deffinently is independant and on it's way to becoming an African Singapore.

Kenya- This one too has come back from the dead and if all is well would be the beast place for an African Corp to emerge from (besides Azainia)

Republique du Congo (as in Congo Brazzaville) if any cohesion at all only in Brazzaville it's self (maybe with Mega-corp help [Azzies anyone?]) The pool region Ninja rebels (yes thats what they call themselves) will likely be doing well

DRC: THE one No-one wants to try to make sense of The new Name might be THE CONFEDERATED DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO-because they will need a loser state so they don't fight each other as much but a state nonetheless so they will be protected form everybody else who wants to steal Their! resouces
The mining state of Katanga in the south will have Dwarves & maybe Trolls & Orks THE Itruri Forest Awakened Zone will have Wakambi Eves and Pygme Dwarves (You mean you're Three feat tall and weigh 200-250 lbs?!?!?!) This one will be one of the hardest counties to use but could also turn out to be alot of fun-Also If the HMHVV outbreaks are as bad in Africa as some say then we might have a situation where in the CDRC vampires are held in HOSPITAL PRISON CAMPS in an attempt to experiment on them to find a cure (on the other hand the wrong types would be experimenting to weponize the virus) Remember if one night in Bangcock makes a hard man humble then one night in Kinshasha Makes a Hard **Really** Humble
:cyber:
MORE TO COME
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FlakJacket
post Oct 21 2005, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Thank you Frank, for regaling us once again with "How my campaign makes more sense than the standard Shadowrun setting we all know and reference."

As opposed to your ego-whoring around these parts? People in glass houses and all that. Not that your page isn't a very nice resource but you can cop an attitude as bad as anyone else's around here every so often.
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boskop-albatros
post Oct 21 2005, 08:26 PM
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Short update-had a big one but lost it

Zimbabwe: Gone-divided between the ZANU MUGUMBAISTS in the North around Harare and Trans-N-K-B Supported MDC in the south on Farm Co-Ops; North Zimbabwe is called Zimbabwe ZANU and South Zimbabwe is called Free Zimbabwe

Malawi (Wit-Africa): Was probably Corp Backed But I could see a revolution happening against the Corporate Agricultural Colonies

Kenya: Probably Fell in the Awakening but has since more then likely been reconstructed; if so it is probably the best place for an African Corp to start (After Azainia)

Tanzania: Also a likely reconstruction but I don't think Zanzibar would stick around; Zanzibar is probably on it's way to becoming an African Singapore

Will rap-up list later

:grinbig:
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SL James
post Oct 21 2005, 10:31 PM
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Isn't kenya part of Azania? I thought it was in Nosferatu.
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Ancient History
post Oct 21 2005, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (SL James)
Isn't kenya part of Azania? I thought it was in Nosferatu.

I think Kenya is too far north to be part of Azania, but I would have to check.

Flak: <shrug> I'm not perfect, but I'm not throwing stones for anything I've ever personally done. It's not a good answer, but it's the honest one.
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