 What's your Favorite SMG?, Voice your opinion. |
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 Nov 3 2005, 07:00 AM
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#151
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Mostly Harmless  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176  |
About like this... MAC10 (@ 6.25 lbs, .45 ACP 230 gr FMJ @ 900 fps, 5.5 gr): 2.4 fpe @ 4.9 fps, 1.02 lbs/s MAC10 (@ 6.25 lbs, 9x19mm 124 gr FMJ @ 1200 fps, 5.5 gr): 1.3 fpe @ 3.7 fps, 0.76 lbs/s MP7A1 (@ 3.53 lbs, 25 grain Solid AP @ 2380 fps, 6 gr): 0.6 fpe @ 3.4 fps, 0.37 lbs/s So as far as recoil energy goes, the MP7 puts out a quarter as much as the .45 ACP MAC10, and less than half as much as a 9mm MAC10. As far as accuracy and handling go, the MP7 would win hands down. The MAC10 fires from an open bolt @ 1200 rpm (MV of @ 900 fps), whereas the MP7 fires from a closed bolt @ 950 rpm (MV of 2380 fps; wayyyy flatter shooting), with a decent stock and a forward grip. That pretty much makes the MAC10 just slightly more useful than a sack full of rocks beyond 25 meters (you'll be spraying bullets all over everywhere), whereas you'll get bored pegging targets at 200 meters with the MP7A1 (not to mention penetrating body armor as well).
FrostyNSO has. IIRC, he liked it. But then, he likes the P90 too, so... grain of salt and all. :) |
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Nov 3 2005, 07:52 AM
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#152
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
I like those tight package firearms :) Too much FAMAS I guess. MP7 handles like a big pistol, but to me the Mk.23 was a frigging club too... If you use the foregrip and stock, it's no problem that I noticed (i.e. bulk-wise) |
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Nov 3 2005, 07:54 AM
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#153
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-July 05 Member No.: 7,492 |
I built a couple of guns with the cannon companion. Adding in all the bells and whistles, You can end up with some rather expensive guns. I think the best one I made was a full-auto shotgun with a high power and high concealability. Somehow I don't think they intended "sawn off" to be taken with "shortened barrel," but I didn't see anything disallowing it.
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Nov 3 2005, 08:15 AM
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#154
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
You ever use a G36C, by any chance? It is my very favorite gun, but that doesn't mean much coming from me. Just wondering if it's as unreasonably awesome in reality. |
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Nov 3 2005, 08:29 AM
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#155
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
It is a cool little fucker, isn't it?
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Nov 3 2005, 08:52 AM
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#156
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
I never got to use the C, just the full-size version. It's a good weapon, I just wish it had a magazine release like the AR15's. Really not that important a gripe ;)
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Nov 3 2005, 11:57 AM
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#157
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 523 Joined: 13-March 05 Member No.: 7,155 |
Excuse my ignorance, but how are they different? By the way, I love the G36 movie on the HKPro website. It shows a guy firing the carbine full-auto with the stock folded and it hardly moves. Such a sweet weapon. G36 Movie |
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Nov 3 2005, 12:46 PM
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#158
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I'm gonna jump out on a limb and assume the "C" stands for "Compact."
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Nov 3 2005, 01:00 PM
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#159
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
Wasn't it "Commando"?`;)
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Nov 3 2005, 01:23 PM
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#160
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Generally, in those full-auto demonstrations, it's like 90% shooter, 10% gun... And while he's firing without a stock, he's using the sling to help stabilize it. Also, while it certainly looks good, the fact you can clearly see the muzzle jump around means that in practice, this would not be particularly accurate fire against anything farther than 20' - 30'. |
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Nov 3 2005, 02:03 PM
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#161
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All your "logic" and "reason" and "facts" don't change that it's a sexy-ass piece of hardware.
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Nov 3 2005, 03:09 PM
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#162
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 523 Joined: 13-March 05 Member No.: 7,155 |
Understood, thank you. |
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Nov 3 2005, 08:36 PM
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#163
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Really? I'd have thought with you being about as big a fan of the AK as I am, you wouldn't mind that paddle release so much. I dig it, but being a southpaw I'm little biased there.
Like Critias said, it's a compact version of the G36. The standard G36 rifle has an 18.9" (480mm) barrel, the G36K (Kurz, or "Short" in German) has a 12.5" (317mm) barrel, and the G36C has a 9" (228mm) barrel.
It was, but Colt (of course) has "Commando" trademarked. HK ran into the same problem with using "HKM4" (now HK416). Colt has "M4" trademarked as well. |
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Nov 3 2005, 09:58 PM
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#164
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Like I said, it's not a huge gripe. I've never really had a problem with it until I started using AR15's. It speeds up your emergency reloads quite a bit when you can be pulling a fresh mag from your pouch and drop the empty mag at the same time. |
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Nov 3 2005, 10:21 PM
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#165
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 523 Joined: 13-March 05 Member No.: 7,155 |
Sorry, I meant how are the magazine releases different?
From the last post I take it that the G36 requires two hands to pop out the empty clip? |
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Nov 3 2005, 10:46 PM
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#166
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
I would venture to say that no, it only takes one hand,
there is a little tab to the rear of the clip in both the kalishnikov and the G36 that you would actuate with your thumb, while grasping the magazine. Never fired either, but I got to play with the H&K G3, which I believe has the same mechanism. |
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Nov 3 2005, 11:01 PM
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#167
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
The AR15 has a mag release button you can easily use with your trigger finger to drop the mag. Trying to flip a paddle mechanism with your trigger finger is too unreliable (it's kindof difficult) to do reliably, and opens you up to possibly returning your finger somewhere you don't want to (like the trigger).
The upshot is, you have to use your support hand to pop the mag, while holding the rifle with the main hand, which slows you down a bit. |
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Nov 4 2005, 01:56 AM
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#168
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
You righties are lucky. I don't get a lot of choice in the matter (other than spending $85 for an AR15 Ambi-Catch). I do both pretty much the same way. I grab the mag with my support hand, thumb the release, rip the mag out, toss it and grab another one. No drop free for me.
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Nov 4 2005, 02:19 AM
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#169
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 140 Joined: 26-July 05 From: Calgary Alberta, CANADA Member No.: 7,519 |
On the plus side, the stock G36 mags come with mag clips molded right into them. This actually makes it easier to use them when clipped together than with the M16 series of weapons. Grab mag with hand, work release with thumb, pull it out of the well, shift it a bit over and put in the fresh mag. Of course with the beta mag, its a moot point, what with 100rds of bad news waiting for someone to tell. :) |
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Nov 4 2005, 02:23 AM
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#170
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
I have honestly never heard of anyone actually using mag clips/clamps outside of some pictures of SWAT/HRT units, and even those were quite rare. If you're in an actual battle, open mags are a great way to jam.
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Nov 4 2005, 02:38 AM
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#171
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
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Nov 4 2005, 03:02 AM
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#172
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
:(
~J |
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Nov 4 2005, 03:25 AM
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#173
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
I won't celebrate until there's reason to believe they'll replace this silly-ass program with an actual competition aimed at selecting a good family of rifles... The XM-8 was (practically speaking) nothing but a G-36 vismod with a much too short barrel. |
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Nov 4 2005, 03:35 AM
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#174
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
HK416 ftw!
At least, that is the rumor I've been hearing. |
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Nov 4 2005, 04:07 AM
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#175
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
But it looked cool, which is all I ever really cared about with regard to it.
~J |
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