Noticing detection spells, what am I resisting?!?!?!?! |
Noticing detection spells, what am I resisting?!?!?!?! |
Sep 27 2003, 04:47 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
OK, 1 general and one specific.
In general, do you notice if you're the target of a detection spell, or if you become a target by being within range of a general detect life or detect enemy spell? second. Do you notice if you are the target of a mindprobe? |
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Sep 27 2003, 05:17 PM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
No, you don't notice you're being 'seen' via a Detection spell. The willpower roll is because of intent. Ie: if you are sneaking, trying to sneak, etc. Then you quite literally will someone to not see you (this is true regardless of magic) and so can be used against the person with the spell. Notice the syntax, they "may" resist with Willpower. If you're not willfully trying to be unseen/undetected (not just from magic) then that's when you should get your roll.
As for Mind Probe, you are unaware of the probe. However, as I recall in 2nd Ed, they had some story which would dispute that, but there is nothing in the book to say you are aware of detection from any spell. Sphynx |
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Sep 27 2003, 05:42 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
What's to say that fully resisting a manabolt isn't undetectable as well?
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Sep 27 2003, 06:11 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
So, the security guard won't notice the mindprobe just before "his boss" shows up, looking and sounding grumpy and telling him to let him in, right?
Mind probe and physical mask may be the best spell combo ever :) |
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Sep 27 2003, 06:13 PM
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#5
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Mindprobe is detectable the same way every other spell is detectable: 4+Magic-Force to detect.
~J |
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Sep 27 2003, 06:15 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
I understand that. But that's to notice the caster, or a vague shimmering or whatever. The important thing is whether or not he knows some one is rummaging around in his head.
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Sep 27 2003, 06:55 PM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Yeah, page 162, under NOTICING MAGIC says that you don't see most spells because they have no visible effect on the physical world. You're talking about, Kagetenshi, the noticeability of casting, not the spell itself.
There's no Canon way to notice you've been Mind Probed, or been detected by any detection spell. The idea of using Willpower to resist is purely based on if you're trying to hide from a person or people. This is because you're Willing yourself to not be seen, and intent has a strong effect on magic. Sphynx |
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Sep 27 2003, 08:37 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 17-June 03 From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas Member No.: 4,754 |
The way we've settled on things in our games is two sided. "Sense" type spells are never noticed. So like detect enemies, mind probe, etc go unnoticed (except if they see you cast it as per above). You dont do anything or suffer any result either way, the spells are passive, they just detect things. However, spells like manabolt or stunball are noticed if fully resisted. This is synonomous with getting shot and fully resisting. You feel the brunt of a magical assualt on your being, and while you were able to shrug it off this time with your will (or whatever) you are aware someone tried to get you. This fits with everything we have been able to compare within the rules and makes sense for us.
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Sep 28 2003, 02:41 AM
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#9
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
We play it as Sphynx and The White Dwarf describe, and believe that to be what the books intend.
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Sep 28 2003, 08:35 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Again I ask, do you have manabolts go undetected, since there is no canon way to notice that you've resisted one? |
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Sep 28 2003, 08:42 AM
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#11
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Harlequin Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 331 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 861 |
It was the introduction story in the BBB v1.2 called Plus Ca Change. Not only did you notice being probed, but both the prober and the probee relieved the memories that you went looking for. |
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Sep 28 2003, 09:27 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 17-June 03 From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas Member No.: 4,754 |
Zazen, theres no explicit statement that you notice being shot either. What you ask for isnt written. But the notion that you notice resisting manabolt hasnt been questioned by anyone but yourself, which means its being implied somewhere. Read my above post for an analogy to other mechanics.
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Sep 28 2003, 10:08 AM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Zazen,
By the book, unless there's a physical effect in the physical world, you don't notice a spell. Considering that you don't stage-down the damage, but fully resist it instead, I'd say you would not notice you were the target for a Combat spell, unless you're a Magician with some form of Spell Defense. We House Rule it differently (you notice you were attacked by a combat spell in our games), but Canon infers that you would not notice it at all. Sphynx |
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Sep 28 2003, 10:18 AM
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#14
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Actually, LD, that makes it flavorable, not Canon. Each person's spell should work differently, and the person in that story choose these 'side effects' to explain how his spell works. Sort of how my Magic Fingers spell becomes visible hands which turn darker shades of grey as they use more weight (so using their full Strength-6 makes them visible black hands). Sphynx |
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Sep 28 2003, 01:55 PM
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#15
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
never ever take flavor text and novel as 100% canon, some of that stuff is written before rules or stats are set. or they disregard the rules in preference for a nice image :)
in my book you will not know unless the magican fumbles the roll, unless its a elemental manipulation or some other spell that clearly state that they have a visible effect (like say armor glowing). that is unless you can see the magican in question (having a guy do some strange gestures, maybe wave a wand around, or maybe some dead rat then guessign that magic is in the air isnt hard). in my game a fully resisted combat spell will have no visible effect or in any other way be sensed (execpt for seen by anyone observing the astral at the moment) as the energys basicly fail to take effect. a combat spell isnt a ranged attack (a elemental manipulation is tho) and rather then fly from the mage to the target basicly detonates from within, this is allso why armor have no effect on combat spells... |
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Sep 28 2003, 08:00 PM
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#16
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
We play that a target most assuredly realizes something has happened even when he fully resists a combat spell, as described in the first post by The White Wolf, paraphrased here:
The rules for Noticing Magic are for an Observer, and describe visual clues. We believe that what happens to the Target is very noticable, and is felt internally instead of seen. For example, getting hit by a baseball bat it quite noticeable even if zero boxes of damage result, unless the target is very drunk. A target who has never experienced a combat spell may not be able to identify it, instead fearing he has had a minor stroke, minor heart attack, acid reflux disease, or a muscle cramp. He might go to the hospital for a CAT scan, or simply check out www.purplepill.com. |
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Sep 29 2003, 04:44 AM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Looks like there's some disagreement. My point was that there is no canon answer to this question. We should be more careful not to tell someone asking a question that there is a definite answer, when in fact there is none. House rules are fine if they're identified as such, otherwise we can confuse people easily. |
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Sep 29 2003, 06:00 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 17-June 03 From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas Member No.: 4,754 |
Im not sure where "canon infers you would not notice it at all" (sphynx, zazen, or anyone else). It doesnt go over rules for noticing fully resisted damage tests anywhere in the book. You may not notice the *casting* but you would know something *hit* you in the very least. It doesnt mean you know who the magician in the room full of people is, or that it wasnt some drug you ate for lunch three hours ago that just took effect, but unless youre willing to say you dont notice fully resisted gunshots you cannot make the same statement here. Consider the "Delay Damage" power; youd have to notice being "attacked" in any form, otherwise the different forms of adept delay damage arent so different since the target takes no damage at the time of contact.
That aside, we all do agree on how detection spells work which was the original posts question. |
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