 APDS vs Armour Spell, SR3. Rules Clarification |
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 Oct 26 2005, 03:04 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 237 Joined: 4-April 03 From: London UK Member No.: 4,383  |
Straight to the point:
Does APDS ammo half Armour spell ratings? If not and it does indeed count as hardened, does it stack with Military Grade armour? Naturally your overall B/I values could get in excess of 20 with a good rating spell. Does this mean that the power of the attack has to be over 20 to do any damage or do you count the highest of the two armours? i.e. 11/11 is Military 9/9 Armour spell - if the power of the attack is above 11 it is defeated... |
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Oct 26 2005, 03:11 PM
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#2
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
APDS halves the armor spell. It doesn't count as hardened by itself but it should stack with hardened armor.
If you are playing at the power level where you can have military armor and Force 9 armor spells then are are playing at the power level where the opposition has access to weapons that have a N in their damage code so there isn't too much of a balance issue. . |
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Oct 26 2005, 03:21 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 237 Joined: 4-April 03 From: London UK Member No.: 4,383 |
what do you mean an N in their damage code?
We have been playing for a long time. Characters have between 400-700 earnt karma... i have a force 12 armour spell! :-) |
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Oct 26 2005, 03:23 PM
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#4
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
N=Naval weapons
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Oct 26 2005, 06:12 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,631 |
Naval Weapons are to regular anti-vehicular weapons what anti-vehicular weapons are to regular weapons.
Light Naval Damage is 15 boxes. APDS halves all armor ratings. Period. Spell, Hardened, whatever. Ditto for AV ammo. |
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Oct 26 2005, 07:07 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Except vehicle armor. Or Bulwark. ;) |
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Oct 26 2005, 07:58 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 21-October 05 From: In a Starbucks™ café near you Member No.: 7,870 |
Nor, I believe, Immunity to Normal Weapons.
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Oct 26 2005, 08:01 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
...and the armour confered by the powers of Hardened Armour, and Immunity to Normal Weapons. At least according to the FAQ:
Personally I'd let APDS penetrate armour on critters with the Hardened Armour power better than regular ammo, but there it is. I'd also (and we do in our games) let burst fire (but not APDS) increase your chances of penetrating Immunity to Normal Weapons. Edit: Stop posting while I'm typing! :) |
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Oct 26 2005, 08:11 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 21-October 05 From: In a Starbucks™ café near you Member No.: 7,870 |
*points and laughs*
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Oct 26 2005, 09:25 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 237 Joined: 4-April 03 From: London UK Member No.: 4,383 |
Question therefore goes to:
Regular ammo 8M Rifle shot at Hardened Military Armour 11/11... doesnt penetrate OR APDS ammo 8M Rifle shot at Hardened Military Armour halved to 5/5 and of course penetrates... Therefore what is the point of hardened armour over regular armour vs APDS? We run it that APDS counts as regular vs hardened (and hardened counts as regular) but AV ammo keeps the same rules and halves vs hardened... What do ya think? |
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Oct 26 2005, 10:36 PM
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#11
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
Umm, im probably wrong here (as i'm oft to be) but dont you compare, and then divide? so either way the 8m wouldnt penetrate, but if the hardened armour was 7/7, then it would and then for determing power reduction it gets halved?
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Oct 26 2005, 10:39 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,631 |
Um... I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. The point of hardened armor over regular armor is that you can ignore (not "almost certain to soak" but literally ignore) lots of less powerful attacks. If one has Hardened armor 11, then you're ignoring assault rifles, heavy pistols, shotguns, heavy machine guns, any but the most direct of grenade hits, any but the strongest of melee attacks, and any sniper rifle except the Barrett. You're a human armored vehicle. APDS halving the armor is the only hope anyone has of hurting you without resorting to an AV rocket. Armor-piercing discarding sabot rounds use a tungsten penetrator to cut through armor better than regular rounds. IRL, the principle is used in tank cannons to penetrate other tank armor, so I think it will apply against hardened armor in SR as well. It hsould apply, in my opinion, to any armor. It's just physics. It won't let you overcome Immunity to Normal Weapons (that's different than armor, even if the mechanics feel the same) and it doesn't keep the power of your attack from being halved if you're attacking a vehicle (only AV does that) but it will halve armor. They're 28 :nuyen: per bullet. That's 14 times as expensive as regular ammo. I'd say it deserves to not suck. |
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Oct 27 2005, 02:46 AM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
No, actually, most sniper rifles have a damage code of 14S. The Barret has a damage code of 14D. It's possible to get custom sniper rifles with damage codes of 16S. My character owns one of the latter. He's named it the Cat's Claw, because his street name is Katklaw, due to his extensive cosmetic modifications. |
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Oct 27 2005, 02:52 AM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 22-April 05 From: Manila, Philippines Member No.: 7,351 |
And I think the barret has custom ammo which act like APDS
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Oct 27 2005, 07:23 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,631 |
That, too.
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Oct 27 2005, 04:06 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 237 Joined: 4-April 03 From: London UK Member No.: 4,383 |
Coolio thanks for the advise.
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Oct 28 2005, 02:00 AM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 22-April 05 From: Manila, Philippines Member No.: 7,351 |
Question:
If for example you use armor layering rules and you have hardened armor, ex. ballistic 7, over soft armor, ex. ballistic 4, so you have a combined total of ballistic 9. Do you ignore attacks with base power of 7 and below? or 9 and below? |
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Oct 28 2005, 02:55 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,631 |
a) Only the Hardened armor is hardened. So it's 7 and below.
b) Cannon Companion specifically says that you can't wear any other armor with Hardened Military Grade Armor. (It's the only armor in any book that says that, and I assume that applies to form-fitting as well, since it's on the same page.) I actually just noticed this a couple weeks back myself. Honestly, it makes sense, since the Mil-Spec armor probably includes a form-fitting layer under the heavy plates, and needs to be fitted for the wearer. |
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Oct 28 2005, 05:46 AM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 22-April 05 From: Manila, Philippines Member No.: 7,351 |
Gotcha. Thnx
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Oct 28 2005, 09:02 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 237 Joined: 4-April 03 From: London UK Member No.: 4,383 |
Yeah we play it that you have to have your Military armour pretty much taylored for you. Plus the cost is shot through the roof as we have quite a lot of cash and want all the extra bits (like Ruthidium Polymers n such). Our armour costs about 1.5mil Nuyen a piece... Maybe Ill post the stats of it here later... High-Karma/Cash campaign (though no karma for cash or visa versa rules are played)...
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Oct 29 2005, 12:44 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 178 Joined: 4-September 05 Member No.: 7,682 |
What about armor with Gel packs?
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Oct 29 2005, 12:53 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
You can layer that if you want. It's pretty likely to mess your combat pool up even with out layering though.
But yeah, by the rules, you can layer heavy security + gel packs, with form fitting. Might have half a chance of keeping your combat pool healthy too. Obviously the form fitting wouldn't count for hardened, and that'd probably cost you MORE than buying heavy military because of the silly pricing, but at least the availability is a bit lower. |
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Oct 29 2005, 03:00 AM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
No, you can't. Gel packs state that you can't layer armor equipped with them with any other armor, which makes them pretty useless in anything less than Security Armor.
In anything less, all you're ignoring is Hold Out Pistols, and they're not worth the trouble. |
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Oct 29 2005, 04:40 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
My mistake.
You can layer FFBA with non- gel-packed security armour - which is I guess where I was mixed up. I would definitely agree that gel-packs are all but useless though - which is possibly why I don't remember the rules on them too well! Security armour is indeed the only thing worth considering them for, but there it costs an absolute fortune to put them in, they hammer your combat pool, and you look like an idiot. :) |
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Oct 29 2005, 09:32 PM
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#25
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Jay-suze Christopher. 1.5 M :nuyen: PER SUIT?!
Why not just buy a goddamned MBT? Or a GMC Banshee? Even with the street index, you should be able to make it. |
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