 Modding the Sakura Fubuki, Potential cheese inside |
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 Nov 2 2005, 12:48 AM
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#76
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 11-September 05 Member No.: 7,729  |
Determining the type of gun that was used by studying the ammo probably wouldn't be any more difficult than it is for forensic investigators today. Plus, unlike other gunners, you're discarding the actual barrel, rather than just a clip when you reload... so if you don't have time to collect it before fleeing the scene, they've got the actual rifling to compare marks to. And you've no doubt touched the magazine with your bare hands at some point, so they have your prints, too. It's also highly likely that Yamaha would be required by law to have the gun mark each magazine it loads with a unique ID number for just this reason. You probably didn't buy the gun legally, so they won't have your address to immediately track you down as a legit owner - but if they ever catch you with it, you're in the soup for sure. On the other hand, the high capacity would mean that you shouldn't have to switch the magazines out all that often. And in the type of gunfight where you'd empty that baby, the longer reload time means you'd be better off just switching to a backup piece (though, burst-fire or no, if you're using a light pistol as your main weapon, you've got enough problems as it is) anyhow. So in most cases, you'd probably be a bit better off than other people who have to worry about leaving clips behind. |
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Nov 2 2005, 12:56 AM
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#77
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659 |
You should remove and melt down the barrels of all your other guns after every time you use them, as well. Be sure to buy hand-made replacement barrels from your contact, so their ballistics aren't on file anywhere. |
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Nov 3 2005, 12:06 AM
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#78
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Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 2-October 05 Member No.: 7,799 |
I think it's interesting that we'd interpret 'muzzle load' to literally mean you load a new muzzle. A new barrel would be very expensive if you had to purchase a new one (preloaded!) every time. I think tubular clips would be much more logical; instead of purchasing a new barrel (complete with electronics to fire), you insert a metal clip that holds the bullets in a line. The clip acts as both a conduit for electrical pulses and as a holding mechanism to prevent the rounds from falling out the front of the barrel. Every time you reload you remove the old clip and slide a new one in.
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Nov 3 2005, 09:04 AM
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#79
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
yeah, they knew the bullet they found in slag a, was fired from the barrel they found... that'll help positively ID you as the shooter... Leave no trace on the barrell and that's end of story. |
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Nov 3 2005, 10:41 AM
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#80
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
I could be crazy, but I find the idea of the removable barrels to be kind of...preposterous.
It's a muzzle loading weapon. You load it via the muzzle. Those are the rules. It's a complex action to load each barrel. How can you tell? Because it has a capacity of 10. Times 4. Not 40. Thus, 4 complex actions. I fail to see why all the gesturing is necessary, the rules seem fairly simple to me. |
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Nov 3 2005, 02:35 PM
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#81
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
However, the artist that drew the weapon was told greater details about the gun's functionality than we were. Some of those details run counter to our assumptions based off the weapon's canonical description. |
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Nov 3 2005, 05:22 PM
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#82
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Because the description is brief, and assuming the barrel isn't meant to be removed doesn't completely mesh with the drawing, and "muzzle loading" are just words ment to generalize an wide range of weapons. Well so far just 2, but they are 2 very different kinds of weapons and this could be used to cover others in the gear supplement book. Replacing the barrel is still sort loading it from the muzzle end, take a look at the weapon pic and you can see what i mean. The "barrel" almost fully slides into the overall frame (this could also be just sort of an inner wall to the barrel).
Simple? I say more brief. ;) But yes, it certainly seems to be 4 Complex actions by RAW. The "gesturing" i think is more about how to describe it to players during play, and concern for "realism". But there are also implication of ammo in hand, balistics evidence, leaving stuff behind evidence, etc. These are indeed a real factor that many GMs take into consideration in their SR game. I'm not one for hyper-realism but i do think this is relavent in the spirit of the type of game SR is usually played as. @Azralon, from past commenst he posted here the artist seems to have been given some range of latitude in designing gear he drew, although in the end it had to be given editorial approval before going into the book. I'm not sure we should assume exactly what the artist was told, and how that figured into the picture. He also mentioned that a lot of the art was started/created before many things had firmed up in the book. Maybe he'll be kind enough to comment on this weapon? |
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Nov 3 2005, 05:42 PM
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#83
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
actually, the artist *did* post in this thread =P |
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Nov 3 2005, 05:46 PM
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#84
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
This may be a silly idea, but why not have a suppressor that fits over all four barrels at once. It would be bulky and would make reloading impossible, but it would increase the potential volume of a gas expansion chamber. It would, unfortunatly, make the gun fairly bulky. |
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Nov 3 2005, 05:51 PM
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#85
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i dont think it would be impossible to reload, but it would make it more troublesome to do so.
basicly have it attached to a hinge or something at the bottom. when reloading, swing the silencer down and replace the barrels. then swing it back up and lock it in place... still, i think this is more of a security gun then a runners gun. even more so if one can load diffrent barrels with diffrent ammo. that way they can fast switch between gel rounds for crowd control and the deadly stuff for when runners show up to party without having to replace a clip. |
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Nov 3 2005, 05:58 PM
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#86
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Thanks! Cool. Hrrmmm, i somehow missed the updating of this thread till now. I didn't think there were so many posts i hadn't read. :wobble: EDIT: Too bad some of that text about the preloaded barrels in the brief he got didn't make it into the book. :( |
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Nov 3 2005, 07:14 PM
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#87
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Yeah, it woulda been neat. I wonder if they cut it for space or to save the complexity for an expansion book.
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Nov 3 2005, 09:22 PM
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#88
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
In other words, it's the most reasonable way of sound suppressing the weapon that's been brought up in this thread so far. Not necessarily silly at all. For reloading, I'd imagine you'd have to simply detach the suppressor and then re-attach it. It's significantly slow down reloading, but it's not like you want to end up having to reload this thing in combat anyway.
Funny, I find any alternative way of reloading the weapon to be preposterous. Merriam-Webster and MetalStorm, Inc. agree with me. |
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Nov 3 2005, 11:15 PM
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#89
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
Ahhh. I never zoomed in on the picture before! I didn't realize that the little black bar on the top is supposed to be a non-installed barrel!
Alright, I suppose I can support the idea of it being switchable barrels. It'd be nice if they had the PRICES for said barrels, though, because somehow, I dont think they're as cheap as clips or speed loaders. |
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Nov 4 2005, 12:33 AM
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#90
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Sure they are. It's a mass market gun. Millions fo those suckers are made.
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Nov 4 2005, 12:40 AM
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#91
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659 |
You could always reload barrels later, with the right tools and plenty of time. What you don't want to do it to do it in the middle of combat.
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Nov 4 2005, 12:47 AM
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#92
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Whatcha talkin' bout? Just pop out the old ones with a cyber command, and slide the new ones in. Why couldn't it be just as easy as a clip, if the barrels were designed to do it?
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Nov 4 2005, 12:55 AM
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#93
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
how do you swap the barrel without removing the sound suppressor, Platonic?
i mean, it's kinda attached to the barrels and all... |
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Nov 4 2005, 01:26 AM
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#94
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I assume PlatonicPimp was talking about reloading the weapon in general, not with a sound suppressor attached. I also assume Dancer was referring to loading the propellant, primers and bullets into the once-fired barrels (which would undoubtedly require tools and plenty of time), not loading a new set of ready barrels into the weapon.
One thing's been bothering me for a while: there are 10 ready shots per barrel? How long are the barrels? 10 9x19mm 112gr FMJ-RN bullets would already take up over 6", adding the primers and the propellant you'd get closer to 9". At that point you'd need ~13" barrels to get to average "Light Pistol" ballistics. Add several inches if it's a "Heavy Pistol". |
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Nov 4 2005, 01:31 AM
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#95
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Since there's no hammer assembly behind the barrels the whole weapon could be exactly one barrel length long. Just a big flat thing with a handle.
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Nov 4 2005, 01:34 AM
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#96
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Well, it'd certainly be a big flat thing. For reference, the 6"-barreled Desert Eagle Mk XIX is 10.75" in total length.
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Nov 4 2005, 02:29 AM
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#97
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
And the only way to do that, is to not put the barrel in the gun in the first place. There are bound to be grooves and latching surfaces that guide the barrel in and hold it into place, and there's bound to be some form of telltale scratches and marks left by the gun on the barrel when you slide the barrel into place, even if on the microscopic level. |
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Nov 4 2005, 02:47 AM
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#98
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Ya, that actually struck me too when i first took a close look at the picture. You haven't seen yet, right? Unfortunately tfxr doesn't have that particular pic up on his site. The weapon is close to the length of the Predator IV. Plus it has folding stock that pivots 180º from the butt of the pistol grip to fold along nearly the full bottom length of the weapon (the bottom of the frame extends as far forward as the top). When they group it with "light pistol" it isn't by size. The barrel that is pulled out is, er, i'd say 8" tops. :eek: I think he could have make it even a bit longer to bring it up closer behind the trigger hole, but not a lot. That's going to require some seriously funky tech for it to work. It ain't your father's ammo that's for sure. I'm also not sure how you'd keep it from having an extremely wide variance in muzzle velocity from first round to last round in the barrel. EDIT: I guess they could vary the propellant for each round, making it smaller the further back the round is. But still the first round or three are going to have a damn low velocity unless these things are short, short, short. |
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Nov 4 2005, 03:09 AM
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#99
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
BTW i'd consider it rather dubious to give this thing the concealibility of other Light Pistols. Even with the stock folded in. Just comparing it to the other weapon pictures in it's class, and then the others on the same page it's closer to machine pistol in size and form. *shrug*
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Nov 4 2005, 05:49 AM
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#100
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
A dubious pistol in SR? Say it isn't so!
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