Riggers, These guys seem to have it easy. |
Riggers, These guys seem to have it easy. |
Nov 3 2005, 01:41 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Even a practically untrained rigger seems capable of amazing feats of piloting, due to the bonuses available. Specifically: Rigging via Hot-Sim (p. 229)
"Matrix tests" isn't defined; but drone and rigging actions are defined under the "Wireless World" section. Thus, the +2 dice likely applies. +2 dice available for having a Control Rig (p. 331) And, lastly, a -1 threshold modifier to all Vehicle Tests while in VR (p 159). Toss the rigger in question behind the wheel of a sports car for an additional +3 dice to handling tests. Thus, an "average joe" (Reaction 3) with "low insurance premiums" (Groundcraft 1) Tosses out 11 dice, with a -1 threshold to Vehicle Tests. Statistically, that's like looking at 14 dice. I guess I don't really have any complaints with this; after all technology that lets you be the car is bound to influence your abilities substantially. I was just surprised at how many "free" dice are available for rigging. |
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Nov 3 2005, 02:03 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
Matrix actions are defined. They're in the table on page 219. You'll note vehicle tests are not on that list, so the +2 dice hot sim bonus does not apply. Control device is on that list, but that's only used when they aren't "jumped in", in which case the control rig doesn't apply. The extra initiative pass for hot sim does apply though
That means that a rigger has a -1 to thresholds and +2 dice if they have a control rig. |
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Nov 3 2005, 03:00 PM
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#3
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
The VCR was fairly compairable, with the control pool, bonus to all tests, init bonus, reduction of defaulting penelties...
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Nov 3 2005, 03:12 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
The original VCR was also considerably costlier essence-wise and resource-wise. The VCR was so powerful in SR3, though, that anyone driving without one was just eaten alive by anyone with one. In SR4, many of the benefits of Virtual Reality control are provided to anyone with a commlink, hot-sim, and 'trodes -- which is to say, nearly every runner. This means that having a dedicated rigger character isn't an absolute necessity in SR4. |
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Nov 3 2005, 03:29 PM
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#5
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Well it kinda is. But, just like a dedicated hacker in SR4, the rigger's skills are more important than his 'ware and gear (well to a certain extent). A rigger needs a nice loadout of vehicle skills, for instance, plus the drones and such that are the hallmark of his profession. He needs most of the Electronics skill group, should probably invest in a few good signal repeaters so he doesn't have to rely on the Matrix to run his drone network, etc etc.
Riggers still have their place; it's just a place that intersects alot more with the decker than before. |
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Nov 3 2005, 09:20 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
When you think about how the VR is designed to make the vehicle feel like an extention of yourself, it's bonuses are not quite so outrageous even if looking at it from the basic numerical perspective is somewhat scary.
On the other note, a proper rigger with all the skills and gear is without a doubt useful but not as nessesary as they were in previous editions due to the over runs elsewhere in the system. |
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Nov 3 2005, 10:12 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 31-October 05 Member No.: 7,915 |
I'm still trying to figure out when you actually roll the command program.
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Nov 3 2005, 10:24 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
It's a page earlier than where they say to look for it. |
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Nov 4 2005, 02:49 AM
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#9
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Especially since in SR4 all the various Reaction Enhancements and the methods for getting extra init passes do still apply when in control of a vehicle. Under previous editions, if you weren't rigged, you didn't get the effect of your reaction/init boosts, so this is a big change and goes a long way to leveling the track. |
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Nov 4 2005, 05:05 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Does that mean you basically substitute reaction for your Command program rating if using Remote Control? That's kind of interesting, especially as you can use remote control from Hot-Sim VR, and get +2 dice to it (as it is on the list on page 219). You don't get the -1 threshold (about 3 dice worth) you get for being jumped in, but you also don't risk taking damage when the drone does. You also won't get the control rig bonus, if you actually have a control rig. |
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Nov 4 2005, 06:11 AM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Keep in mind that when using the command program to issue commands to your drone, the drone acts on its own, independent initative. If the drone gets a better init score than the rigger, and it doesn't currently have a command to act on, it'll have to delay its action until the rigger's phase, when the rigger can issue a new command. If the rigger gets a better init score than the drone, the rigger will issue a command on his phase, but then will have to wait for the drone's phase to see the command acted upon. As an aside, you mention that a -1 threshold is worth about 3 dice. This is very true when looking at it from the law of averages, but there's another way of looking at it as well: If you're spending dice to buy automatic hits, -1 threshold is worth the 4 dice you'd have to spend to get 1 automatic hit. |
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Nov 4 2005, 09:06 AM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Not quite - Remote Control is different from Issuing Orders, too.
Remote Control is possible for any wifi-enabled device, and is always a complex action, happening on the initative of the controller - like piloting an RC Car. |
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Nov 4 2005, 06:23 PM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 31-October 05 Member No.: 7,915 |
Ahhh....*that*'s what command is for. It's effectively your attribute when jumped in. No effect when just giving commands to a drone though....I think.
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Nov 4 2005, 07:33 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
It only makes sense for Riggers to get bonuses from lots of places, because they're such skill whores.
I mean, HOW many vehicle skills are there? Plus you need a lot of the electronics group, and all the building skills, and gunnery, and so on so forth. They need the help. |
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Nov 4 2005, 09:40 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
You don't need a building skill at all, get a friend for life mechanic contact = )
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Nov 4 2005, 09:41 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 25-October 05 Member No.: 7,892 |
No. You use your own attributes when "jumped in". However, you can remotely control a vehicle without jumping in (using AR rather than Full VR). THEN you use Command + Skill. Controlling Devices, pg 220. |
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Nov 5 2005, 01:43 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Sothere are 3 control categories:
- VR jump in (reaction + skill, -1 treshold) - AR control (command + skill) - just telling the drone and letting it do the job (pilot + autosoft) |
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Nov 5 2005, 03:04 AM
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#18
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Agreed, especially now that your VCR doesn't essentially let you default to (augmented) Reaction for free and throw more dice at a lower TN than meatspace drivers who *had* the right skill, like you did in SR3. |
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Nov 5 2005, 03:47 AM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 25-October 05 Member No.: 7,892 |
Another rigger question:
A device can not run more programs than it's system rating without taking a penalty to response. Do Autosofts count toward this limit? If I have a standard drone with Device rating 3, does running 4 autosofts on it cause it's response rating (and thus it's pilot rating) to drop? |
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Nov 5 2005, 09:52 AM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say that autosofts are intended to be treated differently than programs (which is why they rate their own label). Autosofts don't count against the system rating of a drone any more than skillsofts loaded into your skillwires from where you've stored them on your implanted commlink count against your commlink's device rating.
Of course, I've already been wrong once in this thread, and I might be wrong again. |
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Nov 5 2005, 11:10 AM
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#21
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Autosofts are programs indeed, but since Pilot is System, too, it would cause the recursive crash - just reduce response, thats already annoying, since initative and understanding orders depend on that, too.
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