 Flechette ammo, am I missing something? |
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 Nov 3 2005, 09:28 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 3-November 05 Member No.: 7,923  |
Flechette ammo is does +2 damage, and is resited with impact armor +2.
every single piece of worn armor in the game, except the Urban Explorer Jumpsuit and has impact armor 2 or more less than Ballistic. So unless your foes where the UEJ (or use Riot or Taser shields), flachette ammo is the way to go. There is little reason to use normal rounds (also, shotgun shot uses flechette rules for armor, but they also spread. I assume a SMG firing flecheet doesn't spread) |
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Nov 3 2005, 09:37 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 29-August 03 Member No.: 5,553 |
Of course, for the times you need to shoot through lightly armored windows, barriers, and the like, flechette ammo isn't quite so spiffy.
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Nov 3 2005, 09:40 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 3-November 05 Member No.: 7,923 |
good point.
so as an anti-personal ammo, it's (almost) always better than standard ammo (unlike past versions of SR). I like the idea that shotguns might actually be useful in combat. heck, it's inabilitiy to penetrat barries might be useful in urban combat |
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Nov 3 2005, 09:55 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
The answer to your question:
Bone lacing. If they have Aluminum bone lacing, then the flechette ammo will be dealing with more effective impact armor than the person has ballistic armor. Riot shields: as you have pointed out, this will tip the balance off for impact rounds. Cops have access to riot shields, and if they come after you and know that you use Flechette ammo they will bring the shields. They like breathing too, you know? And lastly and most importantly: Cost. I can get fifty normal rounds for the cost of ten flechette. I have watched a person use over three hundred rounds of flechette in a run that went bad, mostly for covering fire for the so that our group could escape. I supported him with normal bullets, and were as effective in deterring corp response team. Same amount of rounds. I replaced my losses for everything (Including a radio unit with the ammo) at a little over 750 :nuyen:. Ammo alone cost him 3000 :nuyen:, which was a goodly chunk of the funds we scrapped together after the run. That said, for their effectiveness, Flechette rounds are not a bad deal. Edit: Added a space so that the nuyen symbol would show. |
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Nov 3 2005, 10:10 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 31-October 05 Member No.: 7,915 |
and it's 5 times as expensive.
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Nov 3 2005, 10:17 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 3-November 05 Member No.: 7,923 |
sounds like the answer is, carry both. normal for shoting through walls, for covering fire, etc. Flachette when you really need to drop your target
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Nov 3 2005, 10:28 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
That would be a good choice. |
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Nov 3 2005, 11:22 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
Pffsh. Dude, carry ALL. EX-Explosive are -the- best at ripping through anything. Explosive are good at ripping through most things Normal is good and cheap Gel is nice to not kill them, and to deal Stun, which is BETTER than physical. Also resisted by Impact. Flechette is glorious to bloody them up a bit. It's never a bad idea to carry a couple of guns, including your OH SHIT gun w/EXEX, your Everyday gun w/Gel or normal, and your Every Other Day gun with Flechette or Explosive. |
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Nov 3 2005, 11:53 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 25-October 05 Member No.: 7,892 |
Yes, I have to agree with the Gel comment.
Gel = Exactly the same damage as Flechette, except it goes on the Stun track _which is usually shorter than the Physical track_. (The people which have longer stun tracks than Physical tracks are mostly mages, in which case Gel rounds stack with their drain damage) And it's only slightly more expensive than standard rounds, rather than 5x as pricey like flechette is. Now, it's not much use against Vehicles, but then, neither is Flechette. |
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Nov 3 2005, 11:59 PM
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#10
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You missed APDS is the best at penetrating hardened armour without having to burn Edge to keep a Glitch from blowing up the weapon in your face Stick'n'Shock is the best at turning your easily concealed Hammerli 620S into a nastly little sting that makes Baby Jesus and heavily armoured Trolls cry. :) |
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Nov 4 2005, 12:26 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
stick n' shock is also good for the "save or die" effect (although it doesn't actually kill you, i'd like to see the person who can survive through even 1 combat turn unable to dodge).
and of course, for it's massive armor penetration (that is, if you are targetting some crazy cybered troll with milspec armor and a riot shield, you can negate half of his armor, which will definitely be more than 4 points worth you'd get from APDS). |
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Nov 4 2005, 12:32 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Plus the zappy of the machiney meanies, and the whole "My hold out pistol is badass" thing.
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Nov 4 2005, 02:37 AM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that. It's one of my favorite combos. |
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Nov 4 2005, 02:57 AM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Thanks for reminding me, i went back and added it in. :) |
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Nov 4 2005, 04:03 AM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Wouldn't the average mil-spec armor user have nonconductivity add-ons? I would think so....
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Nov 4 2005, 04:17 AM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Shoot the bastard in the face! :) Visor? What visor? Ya, likely though i'm really curious if those ratings are suppose to also add on top of the normal armour rating for determining encumberance. I have a sneaking suspition that they should. So most folks are going to have a serious think about what they want the most protection from; fire, chem, or electrical. P.S. None of that ammo stacks up to a RAW squirt gun with a Narcojet loadout. :( |
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Nov 4 2005, 04:21 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Agreed, but I am pretty sure Non-conductivity should be a must have. The potential power of electric damage weapons is frightening. Chemical seal would be up there too, but it just seems impractacal (on normal armored runners, not mil-spec full body types) and not very effective to me.
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Nov 4 2005, 04:32 AM
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#18
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
It doesn't matter if they stack or not. Chemical protection is neither ballistic nor impact armor - it's just Toxin Resistance. So no, you can layer in Chemical Protection all the way up to six and it doesn't make the armor any more encumbering.
-Frank |
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Nov 4 2005, 04:38 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 12-April 04 From: Lacey, Washington Member No.: 6,237 |
Fletchette, explosive, EX, APDS. Doesn't matter, they're all better than regular ammo. Of course, the only people who load hardball ammo these days are the military (because they have to, not because they want to). Every police department in the US issues hollowpoint rounds for their handguns. Basically, nobody uses hardball ammo for social work. That "regular ammo" crap is just for practice.
Of course, it's real easy to spend as much on ammo as you did on the gun that fires it :) Price an Ingram Smartgun X with three clips of EX explosive or fletchettes. |
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Nov 4 2005, 04:41 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
I thought EX-EX is better than APDS for going through hardened armor? Or is it just better for NORMAL armor? I know and love stick'n'shock - my gunbunny adept's light pistol is filled with it, it's the only ammo I bought for it (the light fills the role of hold out, just I hate what hold outs look like, so I went for an L36) |
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Nov 4 2005, 02:30 PM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
Ex-Ex is better gof getting through hardened armor too, i think, but APDS won't blow off your own arm if you glitch with it is what he was saying :P
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Nov 4 2005, 03:15 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 3-November 05 Member No.: 7,923 |
of course with the massivly armored troll, it might be better to not pierce his armor and do stun damage insted. HIs stun track is probably shorter
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Nov 4 2005, 05:03 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
A Troll wearing hardened armour? 'Round these parts we call that a spirit! :) P.S. If you don't exceed the hardened armour you do no damage. That's the "hard" part. |
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Nov 4 2005, 05:23 PM
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#24
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
RAW doesn't explicitly say that it affects encumbrance, and generally the default ruling is don't make up stuff that isn't there when it would have made sense for it to be stated explicitly. However most of them (though not chem since armour does help with chem :( ) add their rating to the armour value [of Impact, though the Impact part is generally 1/2 ignored by those]. So there's a slight hinting of it, and in some ways makes a bit of sense physically. That's why i was wondering if it is another one of those intended rules that were fumbled when written out or something got dropped for brevity that really shouldn't have been. *shrug* |
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Nov 4 2005, 05:39 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 3-November 05 Member No.: 7,923 |
I didn't say hardened, I just mean with a high armor rating.
Can a person get Hardened armor. I just read Full Body armor carefully, it doesn't say it's hardened |
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