Hoping for some quick advise on SR4. Options

[juzzman]

Hi there, Hoping for some quick advise on SR4.

I currently have a lot of SR2 books with many of the supplements and a lot of official adventures/campains. I used to play some years ago, but havent touched it since, been learning d&d 3.0 then 3.5

Have a hankering for it again, but wanted to know, since my current players havent played SR before, is it worth getting the SR4 rulebook, and how much conversions is going to be required for all the existing modulces i have?

From doing searched on the boards, it seems that all the encounters in the material i have will have to be redone, needing basically all the stats and weapons changed. is this correct?

Is the new SR4 simple enough for new players or otherwise better that SR2 enough to justify all the extra work?

Thanks for your opinions

[Catsnightmare]

I can only suggest going to a game shop and comparing 3rd and 4th yourself.
I personally dislike the majority of SR4 and would rather stick with SR3 which already has support books and modules out for it, and it's by far easyer to convert 2nd edition stuff to 3rd (it even tells you how to in SR3) since they still very similar to one another. In comparison to SR4 which is a near total departure from SR3 and as it has already proven extremely difficult to near impossible to convert stats from SR3 to SR4. Hell, from all appearances it seems the publishers themselves aren't even going to attempt it.

Then there's the whole rules errors/erata/corrections issue. SR4 is still new, with players finding issues with rules and things still. I don't keep up with the SR4 board that much so don't know how much is fixed and/or house ruled yet. But any question about SR3 has pretty much been asked, answered, corrected and house ruled repeatedly over the several years it's been around, and you can probably find them all here in Dumpshock with the search engine.

[Gyro the Greek S...]

If you want to do material with stats provided before, do SR3.
From scratch, it's a toss-up. Thus far SR4 seems to be more new-player friendly. That's just my opinion, of course.

[Snow_Fox]

Cat'snightmare points out a very good point. the errata has been done on 3. We know where the screw ups occurred. 4 they are still trying to get out the prime book and see what the rules are like.

also since 4 is out you have a good chance of getting 3rd ed SB's at a discount.

[Gutshank]

I was pretty much in the same boat as you, hadn't played SR in about 10 years or so and had my ol' SR2 stuff.

Well, Got the itch for SR again just as SR4 was released so I picked up a copy of SR3 and SR4 and compared them to see what my group would get into.

We're went with SR4. It'ds got some glitches, sure. But then again, what edition of the game hasn't. We've been having a blast with it so far.

[JongWK]

Juzzman, if you want a rookie-friendly book, you might want to try SR4. Background sourcebooks like Tir Tairngire or Threats shouldn't be a problem with Fourth Edition, as they're mostly flavor. For the adventures' stats, you can use the official conversion guide at www.srrpg.com. It'll take you some time, but it's not hard.

[Reaver]

Myself, I would say stick with SR3. I purchased the SR4 book and was highly disappointed.

However, SR4 does have one thing going for it. The game system is highly dumbed down. So the bonus is, if you have new players, it'll have a quicker learning curve.

If you think your players can handle the higher learning curve of SR3, this is a good time, since any SR3 products you don't have you can probably find used at cheap prices. ;)

That's just my 2¥. ;)

[Slacker]

I think a couple of you who posted missed that he said he had SR2 material only.

juzzman, since you'd either have to continue to use that old material or buy new books (either SR3 or SR4), I'd really recommend going ahead and going with SR4.
Especially since you're talking about introducing it to players new to Shadowrun.
SR3 has certainly been more developed than SR4, but SR4's more simplified mechanic is easier to learn. In my experience, many players (particularly D&D players) have a hard time with the complexity of the SR3 system.
Also, with new players you don't necessarily need/want all of the extra bell's and whistles. If you start pulling out the BBB for basic rules, Man & Machine for cyber-/bio- ware rules, Matrix for decking rules, Rigger 3 for rigging rules, and whatever other supplemental books you want, players get very intimidated thinking that you might expect them to actually read all of that just to get started.
You could start your group out on SR4 with just the BBB. As your group evolves within the game, you can expand the available options by getting new books as they come out.

You may also want to read this thread in the SR4 section, which deals with the same subject except from the standpoint of going from SR3 to SR4.

[Zolhex]

I have played all versions of SR from 1 to 4. What one did do I like best? Easy answer SR2 now that doesn't mean I didn't like SR3 and don't like SR4 just that as things sit right now 2 was the best to me. However 4 has just been born so it needs some time to get it's wits about it so it can start to grow and evolve. Now because of 4's need to grow it makes it a great system for new players so long as someone stays up on the errata which is not all that hard to do.

Do I like SR4? Yes! Thankfully I found some pretty cool people to sit down with and play every couple of weeks. We all have the main book and we open them alot some games to make sure we get it right. Sometimes there have been issues and I tend to go home and write them up in a letter to Mr. Boyle who has been overwhelmingly helpfully in answering all our questions. Needless to say we have found SR4 to be a fun and entertaining system.

So in answer to your question should you play SR4? Yes. Is there alot of work to convert SR2 modules to SR4? Yes. Is it worth it? In my opinion no leave the past in the past just make up some of your own adventures and in time I am sure Fanpro is gonna pop some new modules out for you to use.

Now I hope that helped you out some if not then sorry for wasteing your time. Just remember with all things new there are good points and bad points depending on who you talk to so no matter what anyone says you may want to get SR4 sit down do some reading make some characters (best way to learn a new system in my opinion of course) and decide for yourself. No offence to anyone else here but untill you take the time to make some characters and play SR4 there is no real telling if you like the system or not. Hehe as mom always says try it you MIGHT like it. :wobble:

[blakkie]

I posted at the end of thread in the SR4 forum that was linked further up, but here is the gist of it.

For someone without the investment of having learned SR3 already, the choice between SR3 or SR4 is SR4. This isn't too surprising since that is who Fanpro seemed to be targeting the product at anyway.

For current, longtime SR3 players moving right now mostly comes down to whether the improvements in area of Vehicles and the Matrix are worth setting aside (or converting) anything in the SR3 supplement rules (R3, MitS, M&M, CC) that didn't make it into the SR4 BBB. IMO the time to learn new rules mostly offsets the other SR4 improvements as generally people that are still playing SR3 either like or tolerate those canon rules, or have [more often] heavily house-ruled SR3 to ease the pain.

P.S. Although some people have refered to SR4 as "dumbed down", such opinion seems largely based on some or all of the following:
1) The text of SR4's rules do not match SR3's complexity and bulk.
2) The rules in different parts of SR4 are much more similar to each other than in SR3, allowing more generalizing for easier memorization.
3) The falicy that simplistic rules means simplistic play.

I think a better characterization than "dumbed down" would be "masochism reduced". ;)

[Kyoto Kid]

This may come as a shock to some on this forum, but if you have been away from Shadowrun since version 2 you might be better off picking up on SR4 instead of SR3.

I have been slowly going through SR4 experimenting with the various game mechanics (Chargen, combat , magic & just moving into hacking) and yes I have found that many things are simpler than in SR3. This is not to say that simple is bad or "dumb" but in a sense more streamlined would be a better word. Features that I found were definite improvements were the shift to the build point system, including character Qualities (formerly edges & flaws), Initiation & metamagic, inclusion of some material from the SOTA supplements (like adept powers) and Bioware in the core book. Yes there will be forthcoming expansions for Magic, Cyber, Hacking (to include Matrix & Vehicle rigging), & Combat. but as mentioned above, the core book is fairly complete in itself when compared to SR3.

The book is (at least from my perspective) better constructed and laid out than previous editions. There is more background material which is presented at the beginning of several sections. The art is okay, the colour plates are pretty good (though they changed the weapon Specialist to an elf - the human gal in SR3 looked more like a true paramilitary type, but that is being very nitpicky). One of the best things, there is finally a useful index.

My only major contention is the "hard cap" on skills and on augmented attributes (this includes cyber, bio, magic and adept powers). Another downside is converting over older modules (particularly SR2 adventures) since the skill and attribute scale has been significantly changed and all the personalities would need major reworking. Also some adventures like "Brainscan" and "Super Tuesday" are pretty much moot since they are now part of SR4's history.

Eventually my group will be making the shift but only after the four supplements are released. and we are all in agreement on the rules.

[mfb]

[Link]

[tisoz]

[Cain]

SR4 isn't nearly as new-player friendly as it claims to be. The character creation section is a mess, and it's impossible for me to create a character in less than two hours. Some people on RPG.net claim that they can't pull it off in less than 4-5 hours.

If he's got 2nd, and is familiar with 2nd, then 3rd is the better bet. 2nd to 3rd was just an adjustment; 4th is a baby-and-bathwater type of situation. 4th has simpler rules explanations, but the rules aren't that much simpler, and actually seems to run a little *slower* in my test samples. Then again, I just picked up Savage Worlds, which makes everything else look like a slug with arthritis. 8)

[blakkie]

[blakkie]

[Ophis]

[FrankTrollman]

SR4 is the most playable out of the basic book of any edition of Shadowrun except maybe First.

As to characters taking 4 hours to build... wha?

You have 28 points to distribute between your 8 attributes. Pick four 3s and four 4s, or four 2s and four 5s, or some combination.

You have 200 points to spend on race, special attributes, qualities, skills, contacts and equipment. Go nuts, most things cost multiples of 5, except skills, that you get 5 points of for 20 BP. All of that is on page 88 or page 111 except equipment.

Except for background and equipment, making a Shadowrun 4 character takes five to ten minutes. SR4 characters are teenage hitmen, and they really don't take a long time to make (unless they have a lot of James Bond gear).

-Frank

[Eyeless Blond]

[FrankTrollman]

[Ophis]

I am with frank on this one. I think fanpro dropped the ball by keeping the karma system as is.

I use a build points system for xp. Though I call it karma coz I like the name.
I hope to see some guidelines on doing this sort of thing in a SR Companion type book in the future.

[juzzman]

Thanks for all the feedback, it is much appreciated.

Since i dont use player deckers/hackers (i found having to stop gameplay for most of the group whille spending time just with the decker too disruptive) and i can never get enyone interested in being a rigger, the changes to these systems are minimal for me. They are all covered by NPC's that bend to my will and serve the plot :-)

Magic would be an issue i guess, but i cant see any of my players getting too highly advanced for the first 6 months or so, mainly cause we dont get together that much, but also cause i try to aim for quality rather than quantity.

I find that the published adventures, lightly customised for my players, have in the past been an excellent way to go, because they keep me interested by not requiring huge amounts of preperation time, and are detailed enough to keep my players entertained as well. I have to minimise the number of double cross senarios though, that really grates after a while.

So i guess i'll get the SR4 book, run one of my firends throughh it, and see if it has a lessened learning curve, and if so i'll see how much work will be needed to convert a module over. Here's to hoping i'm smarter than i think i am :-)

I guess i'll have to foregoe bug city and a few more of the modules that became historical points of note though if i go SR4. Damn history progressing :-)

Juzzman

[Slacker]

[Harlequins_Back]