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> Awakened and wondering.
Straight Razor
post Nov 23 2005, 02:38 PM
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Random thing came up in a game. one of our PhyAdepts(a shifter BTW) wants to learn to cast spells. He's just an adept, not a mystic adept. Can he spend Karma to "up-grade" him self to a Mystic Adept. Then sepne karma per usual to learn spells.
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tisoz
post Nov 23 2005, 02:50 PM
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Magician Way adepts are a different chargen priority than adepts, so by the rules no.

If you are going to let them pay karma to get there, make them pay a buttload to get the proper priority, then let them initiate to buy the Magical Power (that will determine their magic rating for spellcasting and conjuring), them let them pay more karma to learn the skills and spells. That's a lot of karma.
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Velocity
post Nov 23 2005, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (tisoz)
Magicician Way adepts are a different chargen priority than adepts, so by the rules no.

That's only true if the character is built using BeCKS. If the character was built using the Priority System, Point System, or Sum-to-Ten then this doesn't apply.

As an aside, neither Sum-to-Ten nor BeCKS are canonical character generation systems (IIRC). Only the Priority System (from SR3) and the Point System (SR Comp) are.


QUOTE (tisoz)
If you are going to let them pay karma to get there, make them pay a buttload to get the proper priority

Even using BeCKS, it would only cost 15 Karma to upgrade to a Magician's Way Adept.
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tisoz
post Nov 23 2005, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (Velocity @ Nov 23 2005, 09:29 AM)
QUOTE (tisoz)
Magician Way adepts are a different chargen priority than adepts, so by the rules no.

That's only true if the character is built using BeCKS. If the character was built using the Priority System, Point System, or Sum-to-Ten then this doesn't apply.

Magician Way Adepts are Priority A under the Priority method and 30 BP under Build Point system, just like full magicians.

QUOTE
QUOTE (tisoz)
If you are going to let them pay karma to get there, make them pay a buttload to get the proper priority

Even using BeCKS, it would only cost 15 Karma to upgrade to a Magician's Way Adept.

And I wasn't using Becks. I was assuming standard chargen. During game play, players shouldn't be able to go back and add things based on the discounted chargen levels.

IIRC, the suggested rate for buying off flaws is 10 times the flaw value. I would suggest a similar rate for adding things that there are not rules for adding (or that are not upgradable according to the standard rules.)
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FrankTrollman
post Nov 23 2005, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Straight Razor)
Random thing came up in a game. one of our PhyAdepts(a shifter BTW) wants to learn to cast spells. He's just an adept, not a mystic adept. Can he spend Karma to "up-grade" him self to a Mystic Adept. Then sepne karma per usual to learn spells.

Since this is a 4th edition question and people are giving you 3rd edition answers based on optional rules, I'll try to pitch in:

The answer is that it depends. Awarding any positivve quality is something that is done by the gamemaster, not by the player. So if the gamemaster decided that you could upgrade to being a mystic adept, then you can. Otherwise you can't.

Now the cost to do so would be very high. You'd have to buy up the quality (10 Karma), you'd have to buy at least 1 point of Magic Attribute, and you'd have to buy up a spellcasting skill. And as it stands, you'd be walking out there with a very small dice pool, and you don't even have spells yet.

So is it possible? By canon, I would say yes. In terms of Karma it is prohibitively expensive, however.

-Frank
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tisoz
post Nov 23 2005, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
QUOTE (Straight Razor @ Nov 23 2005, 09:38 AM)
Random thing came up in a game. one of our PhyAdepts(a shifter BTW)  wants to learn to cast spells.  He's just an adept, not a mystic adept.  Can he spend Karma to "up-grade" him self to a Mystic Adept.  Then sepne karma per usual to learn spells.

Since this is a 4th edition question and people are giving you 3rd edition answers

They have shapeshifter PC character rules for 4th edition? I must have missed that part.
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FrankTrollman
post Nov 23 2005, 08:24 PM
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No they don't. But they have Shifter rules, and the terminology for SR4 is "Mystic Adept" rather than "Magician's Way Adept". So since he's using the SR4 terminology, I'm assuming that he is using the SR4 rules and has converted a shifter adept.

-Frank
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blakkie
post Nov 23 2005, 08:32 PM
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By canon no since, and i can only assume for SR tradition purposes, the SR4 rules explicitly state that you cannot purchase Adept, Mystic Adept, nor Magician Qualities after chargen. :(

However i'd personally allow it. Would i charge 10BP for a new buy or the even more uncanon 5BP difference between the two? Likely 5BP if the change molds well to the path the Adepts life has taken (intentionally or unintentionally chosen by the player). Elsewise? *shrug* Likely, i tend to be an accomidating GM that way if it looks like it'll bring fun to the table. It certainly brings no balance issues with it. So basically as Frank describes.

As for how prohibitively expensive it is, it depends partially on how high your [natural] Magic is now and whether you'll have to Initiate. If you only have Magic 5 (with no Essense loss), it'll cost you 10 + 18 + (6+6+9) = 49 karma. That'll give you 1 Magic for spells/conjuring (limiting to Force 1, Force 2 with physical drain) and Spellcasting (3), Summoning (3), or Counterspelling (3) (the last likely being the most useful, depending on opponents).

That's a lot of karma, but having Counterspelling in SR4 is really important too. *shrug* Overall i wouldn't call it the most effective purchase. With the extra karma spent the Adept could instead have initiated and be most of the way to their 7th PP.
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blakkie
post Nov 23 2005, 08:37 PM
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@tisoz

There are Regeneration rules, and ones that are a lot more PC playable. Which is a big part of it. Even though they left Shapeshifters themselves out of the BBB they are still convertable IMO (and there are SR4 forum threads on this).

EDIT: They do also mention 'shifters in the Qualities section as an example of an Uneducated, and one other place too i think.
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Straight Razor
post Nov 23 2005, 08:57 PM
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Ooo. i only tough 4th ed with my burning stick...

AKA i'm playing 3rd rules.
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Jinx the Raccon
post Nov 23 2005, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (Straight Razor)
Ooo. i only tough 4th ed with my burning stick...

AKA i'm playing 3rd rules.

We are playing with a hybrid of both as the GM likes the 4th matrix rules better.
He may switch over once several of the supplemental source books are out.
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tisoz
post Nov 23 2005, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (Straight Razor)
Ooo. i only tough 4th ed with my burning stick...

AKA i'm playing 3rd rules.

I thought so. :D :grinbig:

Either edition, it is a chargen decision, not something that is supposed to be allowed during play. House rule away.
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Velocity
post Nov 23 2005, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE (tisoz)
Magician Way Adepts are Priority A under the Priority method and 30 BP under Build Point system, just like full magicians.

Really? I didn't know that -- where's it written? Can you cite a source? I'm not disagreeing with you, I've just never read that anywhere and I thought I knew the chargen rules pretty well.
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Grinder
post Nov 23 2005, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE (tisoz)
Either edition, it is a chargen decision, not something that is supposed to be allowed during play. House rule away.

If (and that should be big if) the GM allows such a drastic change, i would let the player pay for really hefty in karma. And he has to do a lot of good roleplaying to reach that goal. It shouldn't be the same like getting a new skill.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Nov 23 2005, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE (Velocity)
QUOTE (tisoz @ Nov 23 2005, 11:52 AM)
Magician Way Adepts are Priority A under the Priority method and 30 BP under Build Point system, just like full magicians.

Really? I didn't know that -- where's it written? Can you cite a source? I'm not disagreeing with you, I've just never read that anywhere and I thought I knew the chargen rules pretty well.

QUOTE (MitS. p 22 @ second paragraph under "MAGICIAN'S WAY")
Magician adepts are Magic Priority A characters but in all other ways are treated like a standard adept:
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Velocity
post Nov 24 2005, 03:19 AM
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So ka -- thanks. :)
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