 US Military's Joint Combat Pistol program |
  |
 Nov 23 2005, 05:21 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752  |
http://www.fbo.gov/spg/ODA/USSOCOM/SOAL%2D...ttachments.html
Specifications for the new JCP are detailed, right down the color but curiously no mention of weight (perhaps some steel 1911s will be in the running). The caliber though it's not subject to debate, it will be .45ACP! now that the XM8 is dead, rampant speculation on the JCP can begin! |
 |
 
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 05:32 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
And knowing how Goverment procurement goes, it ought to be available in the field around 2015.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 05:44 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Which makes it just the right age to be a classic in the world of SR3/SR4.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 05:46 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
How long will it be until Raygun extrapolates the SR3 stats from that sheet?
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 05:59 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Actually this could easily be the gun that becomes the model for the original Ares Predator. Whoever the ultimate contract award goes to would have a contract that would be an attractive acquisition for a developing Ares Arms
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 06:01 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
And the lack of a weight specification handily explains why the Ares Predator weighs over 2kg!
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 06:09 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
But the length specification rules out that 10" barrel!
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 06:25 PM
Post
#8
|
|||||||
|
Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Not looking good there...
Several pistols on my website appear to be capable of meeting these specifications, Notably the HK USP45 (full-size/Tactical) and SIG-Sauer P220 (most likely candidates), though the CZ97 and Baby Eagle .45 could also fit the bill. There are a number of guns that I don't have on my site that would also fall under these specifications. The Glock 21 cannot at present be configured for DA/SA, so it doesn't meet the action specs. The only commercially-available gun I can think of that meets these specifications as-is is the SIG-Sauer P220ST. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Nov 23 2005, 07:25 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
[QUOTE=Raygun,Nov 23 2005, 06:25 PM] [QUOTE=raygun]The only commercially-available gun I can think of that meets these specifications as-is is the SIG-Sauer P220ST. [/QUOTE]
why the 220ST and not the 220R? the interchangable backstrap objective makes it seem like just about every company is going to have to go back to the drawing board. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 07:27 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
If the ticket on most HK's wasn't a little high, I'd say they've got it. As is? I'm betting on Sig taking this one home.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 07:31 PM
Post
#11
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
great idea, a lot of the pictures of the predator show extended mags, more recent pictures show it as a smaller gun that could possibly fit the 9.65' max length (same length as the H&K SOCOM). some of these requirements are pretty futuristic
just like ALIENS, :love:
|
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Nov 23 2005, 07:56 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I will stab them all.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:08 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
This shot counter bullshit is going to turn this in XM29.1
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:08 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Why do I have a sneaking suspiscion that it'll end up looking like Master Chief's Magnum from Halo 2? After the XM8 and all.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:23 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
You can never go wrong making things look like they should be being carried by the Master Chief. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:30 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
What a damn waste of money... Special operations types can already pretty much pick and choose their guns, so they don't need this (especially because these one-size-fits-all schemes usually don't yield such great result), and in the armed forces at large, what sidearm you've got matters fuck-all. Maybe they ought to spend some money on ultra-modern bayonets as well. :S
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:35 PM
Post
#17
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Pistols are being used much more these days, as our military is essentially engaged in an occupation role. Between MOUT and MP type duty, having a good pistol matters infinitely more than it does in large scale military operations over open, traditional military terrain. Of course, would be nice to have a rifle without direct gas impingement. But that would just make too much sense.
Sure you can. Hand that man an F2000 with a doubled mag capacity and the first he does is turn it into the world shittiest sub machinegun. I could do more damage with a .22LR Mac10. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:44 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Of course, why not just issue our troops SMGs for an occupation role? Hmmmmmmm? Why not something simple and durable that's stood the test of time?
Or do they just not want to see American soliders carrying an Uzi? |
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:50 PM
Post
#19
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Maybe. But what advantages can they possibly come up with over any number of off-the-shelf pistols out there that'd justify starting a whole new program and competition? Especially since, if I understand correctly, they're not even considering switching to a new cartridge. Also, if they want to make a pistol for MOUT, let them do that, instead of trying to come up with a gun that's magically going to be the answer to everyone's prayers. This just smacks of OICW and XM-8 all over again. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:51 PM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you mean like the M4 that they're already issuing (SMG, carbine, same difference)? an SMG/carbine is not a sidearm, and it's a sidearm that they're looking for here. SMGs/carbines don't fit comfortably with the gear attached to a pilot's flight suit, for instance.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 08:51 PM
Post
#21
|
|||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Ultra-modern bayonets on pistols. My god, I think we're on to something here. ~J |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 23 2005, 09:00 PM
Post
#22
|
|||
|
King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Riiight. Because of course that isn't going to bring up any nasty comparisons or symbolism. :S Aside from that I'm sure that there are much better weapons out there than the Uzi. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 23 2005, 09:04 PM
Post
#23
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Squall Leonhart unavailable for comment. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 23 2005, 09:04 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
It's heavy for an SMG, has good recoil, and a high-cap mag. It's nigh-perfect for the environment they're in.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23 2005, 09:53 PM
Post
#25
|
|||||||||||||
|
Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Mostly because I'd forgotten that there was a P220R. That might work too, though I'm not sure that the aluminum receiver would live up to the threshold 20,000 round service life.
Yeah, I missed that. However, it is an objective, not considered absolutely necessary. It's just a "nice to have". I think it would be totally superfluous for a military sidearm, but that's just me.
Absolutely. File under "fucking silly" and "useless".
The problem here, mmu1, is that the Berettas that are currently in joint service (and matter fuck-all) are wearing out. It's getting to be time to replace them in bulk. If you're going to have to replace them anyway, you might as well do so with equipment that is capable of meeting modern requirements. At the very least, I think a light mount could be useful for everyone. I see nothing wrong with them spending money to find out what will work best and I hope they continue to do so, so long as they learn from the failures.
After 20 years of using the 9x19mm, going back to .45 ACP is pretty much going to amount to moving to a new cartridge. Aside from that, It appears to me that they already have a commercial pistol in mind (in the P220ST/P220R). However, considering the fact that this would amount to a very large contact, they want to allow other companies to compete for that contract in order to see if any of them can meet their objectives. This is where XM8 when wrong. There was no competition.
Because then you have to train them to use and maintain it. It's also yet another piece in the logistical puzzle. That's something they really don't have the time for right now, especially when they can use M4s that work reasonably well in that role. |
||||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 26th April 2024 - 11:59 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.