What would you do?, Getting screwed by a Johnson Options

[Lord Ben]

Okay, so we are hired in an art heist to provide a distraction for a group of professional runners (we're more up and commers). We're supposed to provide a diversion while they steal an ancient Aztec mask that is magical of some sort. Of course our diversion involves stealing some gold statues, and other valuables.

Our plan involved a clever mix of stolen docwagon ambulances, epileptic hookers, submachine guns, and no small amount of plain greed. We got out of there with a large collection of gold coins from Alexander the Great, Mayan jewlery, and of course the 200lb solid gold coffin from Ancient Egypt which turned out to contain a mummy (vampire?) in stasis which was astrally active.

We sold the misc stuff, kept Vlad the Impalers sword, and wanted to sell the Coffin & Mummy to someone who cared about the magical significance. We figured Dunkelzahns Institute of Magical Research (DIMR) would want the coffin. I rolled my street knowledge, got fair successes and was told that DIMR dealt with runners with objects of dubious origin and was fairly honest. We called them and wanted to meet them somewhere to discuss a sale. They said it was safest at their location since in case something got free they could deal with it there with wards in place, etc. We said we were afraid of doublecrossing and wanted to do it elsewhere but with DIMR's reputation as honest people we accepted.

We got to DIMR, unloaded the coffin, and let them look at it. The negotiator on their side was Mr Kennedy who works for Mr Nixon, etc. I'm sure there was probably a Carter and Ford in there somewhere too. They first said how rare it was an how they were really interested in it and came up with an opening bid of 1.4 million, based on the gold content it'd be worth 2.5m melted down into ingots but with the illegality and hassle of doing that we'd set a goal of 2.1m for it all (300k each for 7 party members). Now since I'm Carlos Pepes the street thug and I knew that they REALLY wanted it I said I needed 2.5 mil for the gold and we'd toss in the mummy for free or we'd walk out of there and try to sell it elsewhere for more. I figured this would be a good negotiation tactic since they really wanted it badly (and said so) and they'd be backed into a corner and forced to pay premium. Then the Johnson just tells us that we'll accept 1.4 or we won't leave the place alive. Of course Carlos (me) and Webay, the two Ork Street Thugs don't like to be treated like pu$$y's and are ready to throw down and take the coffin with us, of course we figured this would be yet another good negotiation tactic. The rest of the party doens't mind getting rolled and doesn't care if their street rep suffers and rolls and takes it like a bunch of gimps. We take our 1.4 and leave.

So now what? Personally I'm ready to start setting off car bombs in front of DIMR because I don't like to get screwed. The DM has made all our efforts at finding Mr Kennedy impossible so personal revenge won't work. Would you just ignore the insult or get revenge even though the DM has threatened OOC to kill off all the characters if we do anything to DIMR and said it'd be impossible to live.

[Azralon]

Dude. You're Carlos Pepes the street thug, getting offers in the millions?

Take the money. :lick:

[Lord Ben]

Yeah, that was a mistake. The DM had the gold coffin at the museum but when we drooled over it he said it'd be impossible to carry out during a theft. I think to discourage us he said it was a 200lb solid gold coffin, it had the opposite effect he intended. That's where the epileptic hooker and doc wagon ambulance came into play. We threw the coffin on the troll sized crash cart and wheeled it out while under fire.

He wasn't planning on us getting it (the 40k in jewlery was what he figured (divided by 7).

I think part of the reason he screwed us is to compensate for us taking what he put in the module as "impossible". While I agree we don't deserve that kind of payout, I'm trying to respond IC when dealing with DIMR.

[Xenith]

I would have flat lined the Johnson's bodyguards, took off the jonhsons right hand with a katana, and then told him that if he didn't pay you 3.4 million, you'd start taking more limbs. You worked hard for that, damnit, and if he thought he was gunna screw with the real deal, he'd better be willing to pay the consequences. You also take his hand as an astral link in case he gets uppity.

If you have the advantage don't take crap like that from some two bit doublecrosser.

[Azralon]

[Xenith]

When they get desperate enough to threaten you with "take it or we kill you", I feel they've crossed the line from honest and respectable, to two-bit. That doesn't mean they'll be pushovers, but they've gotten desperate and/or don't have the cash. In which case, just bloody negotiate. 1.4 mill plus a (small) percentage of profits; 1.4 mill plus an ace in the hole if they need it (don't underestimate having a big time friend, its worth more than the mill in many cases); 1.4 mill plus an experimental new toy "worth" the difference (a fun new way for the GM to mess with the PCs if he so wishes).

Threaten anyone with "take it or die" and you have crossed the line from a "legitimate" deal to a "rule of the jungle" situation.

That said, perhaps the GM just didn't have the time to think up the above negation tactics.

[RedKnightSpecial]

200lbs of solid gold is about the size of a dictionary. You may have found a mummified polecat.

[Adarael]

Just fyi, a solid gold coffin would weight significantly more than 200 pounds, just based on the weight of gold as an element. I'd wage it'd be more in the 500-750 pound range, depending on thickness.

[Lord Ben]

I should say a coffin containing 200lbs of solid gold as opposed to gold-alloy or something. IE, when melted down we'd have 200lbs of gold.

[Azralon]

[Demon_Bob]

Be glad that your GM didn't realize that a Solid Gold Coffin that size would weigh 2-4,000kg and take the money.
He should have called the game session just after you guys got out and then figured out what he wanted the Johnson to do. Prolly the best option he could have thought of was for the Johnson to just tell you that he couldn't come up with those kind of funds.
If you wanted to try to sell it to someone else go ahead. If The Johnson really wanted to screw you over all he would have to do is set up a buy for you with the local authorities investigating the theft.

[Lord Ben]

The Street Sam half of the party also wants to whack the Mage half of the party that didn't have our back while we were trying to negotiate from a position of strength. As soon as they start proclaiming "Take the money or we'll all die, aiieee!!" it's time to just end negotiations and plan revenge. Then kick the wimps out of the group.... :)

[Lord Ben]

Well, it was a week between the theft and the sell to DIMR. And DIMR wasn't the orginal Johnson. We sought them out purely because of their honest reputation.

Another thing that bugs me is that when we were trying to set up a meet somewhere neutral the DM told us that we'd look dumb not trusting DIMR and it'd insult them because they're the most honest group ever, blah blah blah. But I wanted to keep the "what would you do" IC since that's how I'm responding to it.

The worst reaction when PC's start looking at too much loot is to increase the amount of gold in an effort to make it seem impossible. Then OOC tell them DIMR is honest before springing your nefarious trap to get it at a lower cost. Then when the PC's are insulted and want to get revenge against one specific guy in DIMR instead of letting them he tries to warn us off AGAIN by making the guy in DIMR the top ranking guy in Seattle instead of a low level mewling trying to impress his boss. Carlos WILL get his revenge, the DM is just afraid it will torpedo his plot and instead of lowing the importance of the double-crosser and letting it happen he's making it harder and harder not to declare war on DIMR and let all hell break out.

[GrepZen]

I'd thwack your GM really...it's his game & all but DIMR has been portrayed in cannon as a paragon of virtue compared to the corps. Going to the DIMR HQ and having Mr. Pres demand you hand over the goods doesn't doesn't seem like a very well thought out situation on the GMs part and smells of a pissy fit.
As to your orig question: If you want to play with your current GM you will have to drop the subject as it seems like (from what you've said) the guy has his view of the SR world and thats that...if you RP and do as your ganger character would do (correctly so IMHO) yer gonna get squashed. I'd say try it and if you are instantly killed by the hand of doom...look for another GM.

[Demon_Bob]

It looks as though the GM screwed up and can't see a good way out, so he is trying to railroad the PCs back into the type of game he would like to run instead of running a higher end game, giving the team tougher runs and giving them a rep boost with all the perks and downfalls that come with it.
Perhaps you could sit down with your GM sometime outside of a session and ask him," What gives?"

[Lord Ben]

Or if you want to railroad players at least let us get revenge on the NPC that screwed us. Even if we get no more money revenge is the most important thing. Getting screwed by a rogue element of DIMR and then the institute granting us permission to bump him off would be great.

"I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with a rogue element of our company. I'll have to talk to Mr Kennedy and have a meeting after he gets back from Starbucks tomorrow where he'll be at 12:10pm getting coffee without his guards.

[Demon_Bob]

[Lilt]

IMHO the GM should just cough-up the money if you really did get away with it scot-free. If the GM didn't want you to get away with the coffin then it was his fault for putting such lousy security somewhere guarding such valuable items.

Seriously, I'd expect constant protection by elite (initiate grade at-least 5) security mages, top of the range defense drones, and drek-hot security hackers on-par with far beyond what are available at chargen. If he's gonna put such lax security on there that 7 small-time runners can walk away with several million nuyen worth of stuff then he needs to learn his lesson.

Denying you something which you took great risks to get and obviously put time and effort into getting is hardly fair. Does he really think that 100k more each will make the game unplayable on-top-of the 200k you're getting anyway? The players are going to take a phenomenal power jump anyway so how can he really say that he wants the players to jump to power level 200k rather than 300k, especially when realistically the coffin would be worth more anyway.

The DF hand-out 1M :nuyen: for killing a blood mage with proof. Here they're getting something extremely rare and unique (which even by my reckoning would definately increase the value by a factor of around 10) yet giving you less than the raw price of the materials for it.

[Drac]

I would kill all your mothers for 1.4 million.
Take the money and Run.

[tisoz]

[Liper]

Actually as a negoation if it comes down to take the 1.4 mill or die, the end result will be the same for thier side, they'll cack you either way, so settling for 1.4 is a silly thing.

Also, there probably would of never been any cash on hand in the first place with a threat like that.

Second, DIMR? They could of killed you anyhow =p

[Gothic Rose]

Seems fairly bull. Your GM made the mistake of putting a SHINY™ out. SHINY™'s are things that you THINK are cool, and ARE cool, but they're meant to be scenery. However, the problem is, when you put out a SHINY™ all players in ANY game will inevitably find a way to acquire the SHINY™. It just happens. Gamers are naturally attracted to SHINY™ objects.

[Teulisch]

the very MOMENT he says 'or die' is when you quickdraw and called shot. Either he can kill you all and end the game, or he can let you have the money and you keep playing.

if your gm yanks your chain like that, smack him upside the head. ESPECIALY after he goes so far to say one thing, then does the exact opposite. and making revenge imposible is just rubbing salt into the wound. hit him AGAIN for that.

and when you all die horrible deaths of blazing glory, kick the gm from the group, and have someone else gm without him. Because you have 3 options here- surrender and let the GM lead you by the nose, teach the gm his lesson, or get a new GM.

[Liper]

actually your gm would be very keen to remind the runners of "word on the street" etc, getting even HALF the value of a item from contacts a normal shadowrunner has access to is too much.

[Drace]

not to mention that you got 1.4 mil for a single item of the grab, and all the other items you hauled out, plus the job pay, I'd be like a pig in sh*t after that score.

But I understand about the DIMR thing, I would feel the need to get revenge, but it seems like your GM has railroaded you, and might use that person later one, just remeber, that you might need a favour from DIMR later on, and all you have to do is ask about how is the mummy doing btw...