new spell design. Options

[Straight Razor]

I'm wanting to create a new spell, but it's a little odd. and i need some feed back.
what i want it to do is, Turn the caster's physical body intangible, and allow them to move like they were levitating(flying).
as a draw back while in this state, though immune to physical attacks, the caster is duel natured (astal target).
I'm not sure what i need in the way of target numbers,(effect of extra succusses), spell duration, and drain.

what ya' think

[PBTHHHHT]

Drawback? Very overpowering in a lot of ways. You're combining levitate with intangibility (I don't recall a comparative spell for this). I hope this is also a sustained spell. Do you have magic in the shadows from third edition? Or are you asking for fourth edition?

[Straight Razor]

yes sustained,
yes, i have MITS, (didn't find the spell design section helpful on this one)
and 3rd ed.

[BishopMcQ]

Straight Razor--What would be the drawback to using this spell as compared to Astral Projection?

By Projecting, you are intangible, have 3-dimensional movement possiblities, and are immune to "Physical" attacks...for all of that, you have the drawback of a physical body which can still be damaged.

By introducing this spell into the game, you would be rendering traditional projection second rate as mages would no longer need to worry about their bodies.

This isn't an attack, I'm just trying to understand the purpose behind the thought.

[Straight Razor]

well.
1. i wanted it to have a limited range and or duration (force + sucess, target 6 maby?)
2. the rate of movement would be MUCH slower than AP. something like levitation.
Drain +1(M) ??

[BishopMcQ]

The Spell design rules don't allow for a range limitation for a movement spell such as Levitation and the duration would either be instantaneous, sustained or permanent.

One possible limitation would be to have the intangibility be linked to the force. Each success diminishes the physical presence (Bod) of the target, up to half the force. Thus for a Bod 3 mage, you would have to cast it at force 6...Bod 6, Force 12. Through this, you could make the levitation sub-power contingent on full intangibility...

Of course, then you would have to determine the effects of partial intangibility, perhaps an extra soak die against physical attacks for each success?

[Ancient History]

Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to introduce a spell that duplicates a magical ability covered elsewhere. Generally speaking.

More to the point, this sort of thing has been done to death: the Mistform (or, "I wanna be a vampire!" spell)

[Straight Razor]

OK. thought. it's an AOE spell centered on the caster. you can travel with in the area of the spell. burn successes, increase size of the spell bubble.

[Sahandrian]

So, basically you want to make Ghostform (from that other game) into a SR spell.

The actual mechanisms sound difficult. The only things I can think of for it are physically entering the astral plane (I think a couple IEs have shown this ability, but no one else) and the critter ability Mist Form. The latter is probably the best answer.

As an aside, Levitation is actually decently fast. A starting mage could get 36 meters per turn out of it, equal to a nondwarf/nonghoul metahuman running with Quick 12.

If you want to be able to pass through walls, that complicates things. But excluding that ability and just making a Mistform spell can be done pretty easily with the spell creation rules in MitS. You get something like this:

Transformation Manipulation
Major Physical Change (base damage S)
Physical spell (+1 power)
Sustained spell (+1 power)

Drain is +2S that way. Most likely, it'd have a Threshold of half Body, TN 4. The movement rate could be equal to Levitation's, but considering the effect, maybe magic+successes in m/t instead of multiplying them. You get Immunity to Normal Weapons (probably using the number of successes in place of essence) and the ability to pass through any space that isn't airtight.

Edit - Gah, three posts while looking for my copy of MitS and typing this stuff up.

This post has been edited by Sahandrian: Nov 28 2005, 12:48 AM

[BishopMcQ]

AH--I hear you, but he's new so I'm walking him through it.

Razor--To increase the AoE is already an aspect of spellcasting. In the basic spellcasting section you can withhold dice to expand the area of any AOE spell. By making it an AoE spell do you want it to actually bend the physics of a location so that anyone in the area can become intangible? What happens when someone outside the area tries to shoot through the area at another target on the oppostie side of the sphere?

This comes back to why is it AoE and not Personal? Personal or Single target spells would mimic the physical transformations that you are looking for as well as the levitate.

[Eyeless Blond]

As Ancient History said, the Levitate effect shouldn't be "included" in the spell; you have to cast that seperately and sustain it as well.

Practical considerations:

1) If you're making your physical body intangible, how do you breathe? As you are intangible, air no longer interacts with your lungs.
1a) If air no longer exerts force on your body, then you are suddenly in a zero pressure environment, and have to worry about explosive decompression. :D

[BishopMcQ]

Eyeless--Both of the practical considerations are things that I would impose if a player botched (rule of 1s) his spell design test, but otherwise I think they would all be covered in the spell design test. Obviously I'm not going to make my player write a thaumaturgical treatise nor do I need him to explain how his magic lets him breathe.

[Straight Razor]

i' think, i'm just out-right making to complex of a spell.

the idea of it being an AOE was giving it a range limit.
Cast the spell on a point, which i would limit to having to be center of the caster.
That point dose not move, and can be altered in size per core rules.
The caster is then confined within that bubble while in his ghost form.
The spell only effects the caster.

and since the movement in AP is speed of thought a bullet moves MUCH slower that AP.

[BishopMcQ]

Razor--
So it now sounds like you want short range astral projection, with the benefit of taking your body with you...Would spell-casters that are normally incapable of astral projection be able to do this? What keeps mages from casting the spell, becoming astral, passing through solid walls and then re-materializing? Suddenly a B&E expert can be outdone, why spend a minute pulling off the panel and another minute rewiring the lock if I can pass through and get in and out in less than 12 seconds?

Again, these questions aren't meant to attack, just examine the different angles. If you can do it, then an enemy mage can do it. Imagine mage troops bringing in explosives and setting them just inside the door to your safehouse. You come home and BOOM. It's a can of worms that begins to have messy complications.

[FrankTrollman]

[Ancient History]

[FrankTrollman]