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> Hiding on the astral plane
Beaman
post Dec 1 2005, 06:29 AM
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I am currently assuming a few things
-actively perceving astrally makes you "dual-natured", and allows you to be affected on the astral plane
-the converse is true--things not perceiving astrally (mundanes, awakened who aren't actively astrally perceiving, everything else physical) cannot be affected on the astral plane

I actually just read this despite having played Shadowrun for a while--our group previously had the conception that being awakened made you dual-natured. This was always kind of confusing to me because adepts and the like could be attacked astrally with impunity if they did not spend the point on astral perception. I remember reading in SR3 of certain "dual-natured" creatures like wendigos and ghouls, but it's kind of fuzzy now. If anyone could clarify that'd be awesome.

Now to my question--
How does one hiding in the physical world affect them from being perceived in the astral plane? I've read the description that living organisms have auras, does this influence hiding? Are "dual-natured" beings easier to spot?
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MYST1C
post Dec 1 2005, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE (Beaman)
I've read the description that living organisms have auras, does this influence hiding? Are "dual-natured" beings easier to spot?

Not just dual-natured beings - living organisms, as you said.

Say you stand in an alley. There's an enemy hiding behind a garbage container - you can't see him with mundanes eyes (cybernetic eye-mods don't help either, you simply don't have line of sight).
Now you switch to astral sight. If by chance the enemy is standing close enough to the container's edge you might see his aura glowing (the aura extends somewhat from the body), giving away his presence.
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Beaman
post Dec 1 2005, 06:57 AM
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Ah I forgot, how do active and inactive foci play into hiding? Do they project like big bright beacons on the astral plane and allow astral enemies to zap you through them or do you have to be astrally perceiving? I've only heard about this zapping enemies through their foci and am not quite sure how it works.
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Beaman
post Dec 1 2005, 07:02 AM
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QUOTE (M$T1C)
If by chance the enemy is standing close enough to the container's edge you might see his aura glowing (the aura extends somewhat from the body), giving away his presence.

Are there any numbers for this? I'm wanting to build a monowhip agility mage who boosts his low agility with a sustained improved ability [agility] spell and his stealth with the agility and improved invisibility to basically get the drop on enemy mages and attack them physically where they are weakest. Obviously this wont work too hot if they can easily see me or my sustaining focus on the astral plane.
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nick012000
post Dec 1 2005, 07:18 AM
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1 word: Masking.

And lots of initiate grades to mask the spell.
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Azralon
post Dec 1 2005, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Beaman @ Dec 1 2005, 02:29 AM)
-actively perceving astrally makes you "dual-natured", and allows you to be affected on the astral plane


Correct.

QUOTE (Beaman)
-the converse is true--things not perceiving astrally (mundanes, awakened who aren't actively astrally perceiving, everything else physical) cannot be affected on the astral plane


Correct.

QUOTE (Beaman)
our group previously had the conception that being awakened made you dual-natured


Incorrect, but you guys figured that out already. You have to specifically be astrally perceiving, astrally projecting, or (if you're a cyberzombie or a few particular critters) dual-natured. If not, then the astral world can't directly affect you and vice-versa.

QUOTE (Beaman)
How does one hiding in the physical world affect them from being perceived in the astral plane?


Here's what we've got:

QUOTE (SR4 p182)
Like physical perception, a character using astral perception should not need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easily noticed). An actual test should only be called for when an astral being is specifically trying to hide, or when a character is trying to astrally observe in detail; in both these situations, an Assensing Test is made.


So it sounds like that noticing the astral mage floating over there is automatic, unless he's specifically trying to hide. Then (I'd guess) he'd have to roll Logic + Infiltration versus your Intuition + Assensing to successfully hide.

I say "I guess" because I don't recall it getting explicitly spelled out anywhere. Infiltration is how you hide, so extending that to the astral seems reasonable.
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Azralon
post Dec 1 2005, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (nick012000 @ Dec 1 2005, 03:18 AM)
1 word: Masking.

And lots of initiate grades to mask the spell.

Masking doesn't let you hide active spells and foci anymore.
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nezumi
post Dec 1 2005, 04:10 PM
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The aura *BARELY* extends past the skin. A few inches at absolute most. And you can't target someone for spells using the edge of their aura either. In my games (and most games I play in), the aura effectively ends at the skin (or armor) so having a little bleed around edges doesn't happen.

That said, hiding on the astral is very important. If you're hiding in a dark corner in a mysterious alleyway, a passing perceiving mage will spot you out without much trouble at all (since you're the only living thing there, surrounded by dark, drab bricks.) Cover yourself with a blanket but miss your foot? That foot is now glowing. Think just because you're a dot on the horizon you're safe? Nope, astral awareness isn't limited by range either. That camouflage jacket you bought? Worthless.
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Tripp
post Dec 1 2005, 09:42 PM
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You'll have to excuse me because I am extremely new to Shadowrun but I thought that non-magical objects in astral space were transparent. Making it highly obvious to a mage perceiving astrally to notice someone hiding say - under a sheet or behind a dumpster. I read the section on going astral and dont remember where I read this if at all.
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Azralon
post Dec 1 2005, 09:57 PM
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They're transparent to astral vision if they're transparent to physical vision. Opacity is identical in the two planes; solidity isn't.

So an astral mage can stick his hand through a wall, but he can't see through it. He can see through glass just fine, and mirrors reflect astrally just like they do in realspace (which is why you can use a periscope to cast around a corner).
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hobgoblin
post Dec 2 2005, 12:43 AM
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about that passing magican, how fast is he moving?

if he is doing fast astral movement he may not notice a out of place aura as he is long gone by the time that tought goes thru his mind...
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Cold-Dragon
post Dec 2 2005, 06:19 AM
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I thought the masking option allowed you to also try and make yourself (and maybe others) look different? Couldn't you try to use masking on things to disguise their nature while active? I don't know if you can only mask one thing at a time, but in theory that would let you hide the foci and/or yourself on the plane.

just guesswork atm, I'm helping a player make his character, so can't look it up right now.

- - -

nevermind, the text specifically says yourself. drat. :P ah well. it was a thought at least!

Might make an interesting alternative option for initiates to gain though.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 2 2005, 06:24 AM
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In previous editions, Masking could be used to hide spell efects and Foci if their force was low and your initiate grade was high. This almost never happened, as Initiate Grades were really expensive, and starting characters could throw around Force 6 spells (and often did just that).

In SR4, Masking affects your own aura only. They is no hiding of other auras in your aura. Flexible Signature can make spells with a Force equal to your grade leave an astral signature for zero hours, so I guess that makes them invisible. No metamagic technique in the BBB can hide a Focus, though that might change in Street Magic.

-Frank
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