 Uncouth & Physical Mask, two unrelated questions :) |
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 Dec 3 2005, 07:41 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 14-November 05 Member No.: 7,961  |
Two questions:
With Uncouth do you automatically fail any kind of social check if you don't have a point in the skill? If I have 0 con, and am uncouth.. Someone could technically convince me to buy the moon for a low low price of 2,000,000 newyen? Am I reading this wrong? 20 extra BP doesn't seem to cut it as for the vulnerabilities of this negative quality.. I would rather be allergic to sunlight. ------------------------------------------------------ Does the spell Physical Mask also give you that persons retinal scans, finger prints, and voice? |
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Dec 3 2005, 09:37 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
if your game consists of hack n slash, it's a free 20pts =p
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Dec 3 2005, 12:33 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Yes, a character with uncouth can make no test if they don't have the skill. I personally would consider any time a character is unable to make the test an automatic failure and would ask them to make a charisma test anyway to see wether or not they glitched. Successes on the charisma test really mean nothing, as by this point it's basically all about how stupid the character ends-up looking.
This is besides the fact that the GM should be calling for extra success tests from an uncouth character. These need not be social skill tests, I could see perception, logic, and similar tests playing a part too, but I'd expect a fair few ettiquette tests there too with whatever else the GM can think of. |
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Dec 3 2005, 08:46 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780 |
Besidesthe basic concept, there is a fine line of stupidity - if you are going to buy the moon, you have to be dumb enough to fall for it. At that point I would call for logic or intuition not to be gullible, rather than automatically failing from being uncouth.
The idea of the flaw is that you suck at bartering, fitting in, etc, etc. It's not saying you can't conceive a lie, it's saying you suck at figuring it out (until later, perhaps). |
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Dec 4 2005, 04:41 AM
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#5
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
It doesn't mean, for example, that you'll be willing to pay double for the items you are looking for. It just means that people won't sell to you for less than double normal price. You still have the option of not paying extra, you just get ejected from the store.
-Frank |
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Dec 4 2005, 05:00 AM
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#6
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Because Physical Mask in imperfect, I'd say that the number of successes must be greater than the rating of the sensor if you are trying to use someone else's retinal scans and voice ID...as well as having a personal sample of the victim you are doubling
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Dec 4 2005, 05:22 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
Allowing the spell alone to do this would make it kinda um, just a little to powerful as far as I'm concered. The spell could allow you to look just like someone, but to convince them that you are the person your impersonating would take some acting, fast talking, or in this case the appropriate forgery skill. You would also have to guess what that persons retinal scan, finger prints and voice look like to the computer system analyzing it. :noflame: To me that is like saying I cast physical mask on myself with 6 successes, so unless they can beat that they see my assault rifle as a violin, and me as the great Violinist "What's his name on the billboard outside" (Sorry short rant. Saw a player try this with a GM in a game once.) The point is that this would give someone that they are impersonating an all to easy way to bypass any security measures in place without any additional effort on his part. |
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Dec 5 2005, 12:43 AM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Well they are in a bad, bad spot if they don't have the skill required, Negotiation or Con in your example. However the "salesperson" still has to roll because a tie (no hits for either of them) goes to the defender (the rube). I personally would start dishing well about the given example penalties, the Social skills table is not given as an exhastive list, for something that over the top. Knowledge skills would likely start coming into play, as would the amount of cash the rube has, and what they have to do to come up with the money. EDIT: In the Opposed Tests description it says they aren't suppose to have Threshholds. However for a number of Opposed Tests do the exact results created by a success do vary on the net hits. For example most spells targeted at living creatures. So as GM i would also interpret "success" on a sliding scale of net hits. Also pertinent to your example is that cons are normally resisted by the group as a whole. So a good rule of thumb is don't send the rube out with your certified credsticks because he is likely to return with a bag of magic beans. :) EDIT: JamesSL had mentioned he was, or planned to put together a much more extensive coverage of the Social skills. Even with 2+ pages plus a few other scattered rules don't really do the breath of the subject any sort of justice. You might pester him to eventually post what he has put together to tide over till Fanpro fleshes out the subject in a supplement book ala SR3 Athletics. |
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Dec 5 2005, 01:48 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 12-April 04 From: Lacey, Washington Member No.: 6,237 |
If the guy with Uncouth doesn't get to roll, is it really an opposed test?
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Dec 5 2005, 02:04 AM
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#10
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Interesting question. However i can't see the salesman succeeding in any meaningful way without rolling at least a single hit whether you call it an Open Test, an Unopposed Test, a Success Test, or Drunk Water Buffalo Test. :) |
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Dec 5 2005, 02:41 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 14-October 05 Member No.: 7,844 |
A non-charismatic person isn't necessarily stupid. Sure someone may offer you the moon for 2,000,000 nuyen(That's a good deal), but that doesn't mean you have to accept it.
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Dec 5 2005, 04:07 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 70 Joined: 2-September 05 Member No.: 7,673 |
Gut feeling is that when defending in a situation such as this the rules for 'defaulting' should be ignored. When you are defending in social situations (whether that be Con, Negotiation, Intimidation or whatever) you are in effect using your stats as defence with skills adding to that defence where as when attacking in a social situation you go with the skill with your natural talent added and as an uncouth person you have trouble learning those skills and iff you haven't learnt them you just can't do it (it possibly doesn't even occur to you to do it or that it is possible - eg the uncouth person just wouldn't think that it would be possible to sell the moon cause no one's THAT stupid).
So I'd only apply the Uncouth unaware disad when trying to initiate a challenge rather than defending against that challenge. Of course if your uncouth character has an Intuition of 1 and no con or negotiate skill then you are royally screwed and you should have been wearing your sign! |
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Dec 5 2005, 10:38 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 14-November 05 Member No.: 7,961 |
My groups GM decided to slap us with a 300bp starting restriction.
I of course was shunted in the position of magic user. Am I just bad at building characters or is making an anywhere near capable awakend runner difficult with 300bp? :\ I ended up having to take a couple of negative qualities to get by, Uncouth was one of them. I can't sneak, shoot, or talk. My only side skills are really medical stuff (medicine & first aid etc..). |
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Dec 5 2005, 03:56 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Gah. My .02 :nuyen: on low-BP characters:
You're starting at 300BP which means that you can expect your characters to be weak. You don't need to try and make them powerful, and even if you do then you don't need to take flaws to make it that way. As it stands, I'd just pump the points into magic, conjuring, and your two drain attributes with 12BP left over to buy and bond a force 2 power focus. Hey-presto: you can easily summon spirits as well as any 400BP character, and that means you can summon force 5 spirits without really breaking a sweat. Let's see: 15BP - Magician 40BP - Magic +4 40BP - Willpower +4 40BP - Logic/Charisma +4 (or intuition if your DM allows an intuition-based tradition) 40BP - Conjuring Skill Group 4 40BP - Sorcery Skill Group 4 12BP - Buy & Bond a force 2 power focus 227BP spent, and you have amongst the best starting mages possible. Of course the rest of your points are somewhat sparse, but this can be expected and you don't really need to cripple the character with uncouth or similar in order to make them playable. Another idea is to take Sorcery+Counterspelling rather than the skill group if you don't think you'll be using ritual sorcery much. To be honest I'd focus on conjuring rather than sorcery, as with conjuring you can just risk a bit of physical drain in-order to summon a spirit that's able to kill 300BP characters in their hundreds. |
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Dec 5 2005, 04:09 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Don't forget you might actually want to buy some spells in there too... |
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Dec 5 2005, 04:49 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I did consider that, but you can do much of what you can do with spells using spirits. You can survive quite happily with only a few spells to help you out when spirits just won't cut it. A combat spell is always useful when you need someone down sooner than you can summon a spirit, command it, have it materialise, and thump something. It's always nice to have someone in the party with Heal, and a manipulation spell or realistic illusion is always nice. Spirits with concealment can substitute for invisibility/stealth, spirits of man can substitute for many of the control manipulations, spirits with elemental attack can cover any elemental effects you need like zapping drones ETC. |
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