 Spirit Domains, Are spirits of the air special? |
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 Dec 8 2005, 01:38 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,784  |
One of my players wants to build a thunderbird shaman (and visions of a GMC Banshee Cult sprung to mind :D ), and we are disagreeing on Sky domains. I originally thought that, as spirits of man are hearth/city/field and have accompanying, but separate domains, so would Spirits of the Sky: Storm/mist/wind. However, SR3 p.184 speaks several times of the "Sky" domain, rather than a Storm/Mist/Wind domain.
Are sky spirits unique this way? Can a Shaman summon Storm spirits all day long, literally from the clear blue sky? Also, how many spirits can a Shaman summon in one domain? Can a Shaman summon three or four Storm spirits and command them all against his enemies? |
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Dec 8 2005, 07:14 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 22-September 05 Member No.: 7,770 |
I would argue this shows that there doesn't need to be a storm to summon a storm spirit. Therefore any sky spirit can be summoned under any sky. However, the evidence isn't perfect... so go with your gut. I also didn't find any evidence in the spirits and dragons section of sr3 to support either argument. |
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Dec 8 2005, 03:10 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
I was actually looking at this yesterday. I would allow a shaman to summon a wind spirit anywhere they can directly see the sky.
As for the storm and mist, it depends. I would imagine you could ALWAYS summon mist spirits in Seattle. I wouldn't allow a storm spirit from a clear blue sky, but I would be reasonable otherwise. A shaman may only summon one nature spirit per domain at one time. (SR3, 184) However, spirits will finish their last orders before they leave. If you are in an area where several domains overlap, you can whistle up one, sic him on your enemies, then focus on the next domain. You lose the first spirit, but it doesn't leave immediately. Summon another, sic him on the same enemies and focus on the next domain, and so on. That is something to keep in mind when you are messing with rural shamans. |
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Dec 8 2005, 03:15 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
On a related note, I was thinking about the field spirits.
Since it's a spirit of Man "field" must refer to cultivated crops, rather than a natural meadow. Now, SR3 uses a city park as an example of forest domain in the city. If the park was built, as opposed to being undeveloped original forest, couldn't it be considered field domain? Wouldn't the trees and bushes be just another kind of crop? |
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Dec 8 2005, 05:10 PM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Isn't a crop normally something that you tend and harvest, whereas city parks are usually just maintained (that is, you don't till the ground and pick the corn every autumn, you just trim back the bushes when they start to overgrow the path)?
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Dec 8 2005, 05:29 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
Yeah, but in both cases, is a creation of man. Something that Man planted and grew.
Perhaps even mowing the grass is enough for it to be Field. You just aren't collecting the crop you are "harvesting". Man's intervention seems to have a big effect on magic. A 200lb boulder and a 200lb chunk of concrete have similar physical properties, but different magical properties. Though, I guess the park would gradually move from Field to Forest if it were not maintained. |
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Dec 8 2005, 05:56 PM
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#7
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
You know, it'S funny how Spirit of Man only exist where man has changed nature, which the rest of the Magic Domain has problems with in general. Not that you [edit]do[/edit] get a background count as normal when summoning spirit of man in industrialised areas...
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Dec 9 2005, 06:33 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,784 |
Yea, it was the Story Example that really threw me, but on the same page in the rules it speaks of a Sky domain immediately after listing Hearth and Forest domains, so it seems to be the case. I guess 2 extra dice for Storm spirits anywhere under the sky isn't and more gamebreaking than the Elf mage with 6 Force 5 Fire Elementals on call. *sigh* God Help Me.
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Dec 9 2005, 10:01 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 152 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,785 |
I think it's important to remember that no domains have set in stone definitions; most of the time I just go with what an area most resembles. Remember, shamans aren't hermetics; they don't codify their summoning that closely, and their rules are not very strictly orgainized. No normal person looks at a park and says, "What a lovely tree field those people have planted." You see trees, you think forest; you see rows of corn in the midwest, you think fields. The emotional ties that the area invoke are more important than the techincal aspec of it's coming into being. From a gameplay standpoint, I think they intended Field spirits to be Spirits of Man that could be summoned outdoors in rural areas, and they suggest parks as forest domains so that shamans could summon Spirits of the Land in a traditional sprawl setting.
6 force 5? I thought that trick was 8 force 6 ? :D |
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Dec 9 2005, 03:59 PM
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#10
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
QUOTE (Deamon_Knight @ Dec 7 2005, 07:38 PM) One of my players wants to build a thunderbird shaman (and visions of a GMC Banshee Cult sprung to mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ), and we are disagreeing on Sky domains. I originally thought that, as spirits of man are hearth/city/field and have accompanying, but separate domains, so would Spirits of the Sky: Storm/mist/wind. However, SR3 p.184 speaks several times of the "Sky" domain, rather than a Storm/Mist/Wind domain. Are sky spirits unique this way? Can a Shaman summon Storm spirits all day long, literally from the clear blue sky? They also list spirits of man, spirits of the land, and spirits of the waters. Each spirit in the category has its own domain as do the spirits of the sky. If you would allow a shaman to summon a sea spirit while at lake Superior, then I guess you may as well allow them to summon any type of sky spirit if they can see outside. If not, then a Mist spirit needs mist or fog to exist and can only function within that domain. Ditto for a Storm spirit. A Wind spirit seems to be what you are referring to as a spirit of the sky or one that only needs to have a view of the exterior. QUOTE Also, how many spirits can a Shaman summon in one domain? Can a Shaman summon three or four Storm spirits and command them all against his enemies? 1 spirit per domain as long as they are not great form. Someone referred to the same place being in multiple domains and giving a command, then mentally changing domains to conjure another spirit. All fine and legal, but watch that the spirit that was busy carrying out an order is finished before allowing the shaman to mentally change back to the same domain and try to conjure another spirit. The shaman is at his limit of 1 spirit for that domain, even if he has no services left of it or command it further. He can always choose to end its service in order to free himself to summon another spirit in that domain. |
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Dec 9 2005, 06:23 PM
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#11
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Damnit, now I've got Spirit in the Sky stuck in my head...
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Dec 9 2005, 06:27 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 22-September 05 Member No.: 7,770 |
All I keep seeing in my head is a powerful Shaman whipping up a storm over the desert on a clear sunny day. This storm rolls in from the horizon, terrifying the troops below into pissing themselves.
If the gm doesn't allow the storm spirit from clear sky (which seems to be arguable either way) then I'd suggest the PC work up a storm spell. |
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Dec 9 2005, 09:57 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 152 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,785 |
I think it would take a rather powerful PC to summon a spirit capable of creating a thunderstorm over a desert. I would think that would require Invoking a Great Form at least ;) And those can cross domains anyway... I would kind of try interpet the domains of Spirits of the Sky in a way that would make them about as difficult to summon as other Nature spirits. Asside from Free Spirits, I require my shamans to have storms (or at least stormclouds) for storm spirits, fog for mist spirits, and a high place with decent flow of air for Wind spirits. I think it's kind of imbalancing to let shamans be in too many domains. Sure, a hermetic can summon up [Charisma] spirits, but they cost 1000s of nuyen...a full stable of 6 force 5 would cost 30000 :nuyen: ! And would require 30 hours of prep time, and a safe place to make a circle 5 meters in diameter! And then imagine what would happen if the mage got knocked out or killed... Edit: Forgot the 25000 :nuyen: Rating 5 Conjuring Library... |
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Dec 9 2005, 10:48 PM
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#14
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
A shaman should always know the Mist spell. |
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Dec 10 2005, 12:09 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,784 |
Well, I agree with you Tioz, but the book doesn't seem too..
and as brohop pointed out, the example on the same page shows Man-of-Many-Names calling a hearth spirit in a hearth domain, then leaving that domain (exiting the the house) and calling a Storm Spirit because he was in the Sky domain. This section doesn't mention a comparable Mist/Storm/Wind domain division, although it does for every other type of spirit. Why are ONLY Spirits of the Sky described this way? Thats the confusion. My player pointed this out and I can't find anything in the book to contradict it. He also points out, if there is a domain division for Spirits of the Sky like all the other spirits, what fair way is there to determine if there should be a storm for that session? Or when you leave a storm domain for a wind domain? I'm leaning toward his interpretation, its seems strongly implied by the text, and I don't see summoning a storm spirit whenever the player is outside to be especially more disruptive than any other type of spirit. |
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Dec 11 2005, 09:26 AM
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#16
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Looks like the authors screwed up again.;)
How many times do you describe the scene as it was a bright and sunny day compared to it was a dark and stormy night? Or maybe that it is raining in Seattle again, or snowing east of the city in the mountains? Or there is a light/heavy fog? How about it is so hot out they look out of place in their armored long coat? I would say if you are ignoring a weather description, you are missing some fun. In the example, they describe the domains as being a forested, mount slope, and under the night sky. I guess the GM decided it was a dark and stormy night. :) |
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Dec 11 2005, 08:38 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,784 |
Lol, not so much, as I have only GMd one session ever, my adventure is on break untill after Christmas, all my players have that family stuff.
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