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> Aptitude Positive Quality
Kavok
post Dec 8 2005, 10:53 AM
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With the Aptitude quality does it still take double bp to move a skill from 5-6?

It states that it takes double to go from 6-7 but doesn't elaborate on if the normal 5-6 costs still apply.
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Tashio
post Dec 8 2005, 12:18 PM
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Costs double to increase a skill to its maximum value. Max Value is 7 due to aptitude therefore 5-6 is normal value.
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Azralon
post Dec 8 2005, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (p264)
Characters can only improve skills or skill groups to a maximum of 6, unless they already possess the Aptitude quality for a skill. (Sorry, you can’t acquire Aptitude at the same time you try to improve above the maximum.) If a character raises a skill above 6 through Aptitude, the Karma cost doubles.


Edit: Oh, my bad, you're talking BPs. You said "double cost" and confused me. I don't recall skills having double cost to get 6 in chargen. You can start with only one skill at 6 (and everything else can't be higher than 4), but I'm not aware of any extra cost for that.
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Feshy
post Dec 8 2005, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
QUOTE (p264)
Characters can only improve skills or skill groups to a maximum of 6, unless they already possess the Aptitude quality for a skill. (Sorry, you can’t acquire Aptitude at the same time you try to improve above the maximum.) If a character raises a skill above 6 through Aptitude, the Karma cost doubles.


Edit: Oh, my bad, you're talking BPs. You said "double cost" and confused me. I don't recall skills having double cost to get 6 in chargen. You can start with only one skill at 6 (and everything else can't be higher than 4), but I'm not aware of any extra cost for that.

There isn't one... although I had also thought the cost was double for rating six skills... but even looking at the example character build:

CODE
Pistols 6 24 BP


It's a straight 4 points per skill level all the way to six.

However, if you *do* take the aptitude quality, it is doubled:

CODE
The Aptitude quality may be taken during character creation to allow a beginning character to start with a skill of 7. If a character takes advantage of this quality, the cost for raising the skill from 6 to 7 is also twice normal, or 8 BP


So, to answer the original post, going from five to six, aptitude or not, is only 4 BP.
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Azralon
post Dec 8 2005, 08:25 PM
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Hrm, so that last skill point is worth either 18 BP in chargen ( Aptitude: 10 plus additional die: 8 ) or 48 karma ( Aptitude: 20 plus additional die: 28 ) if I didn't take Aptitude until after gameplay started.

Tough call. 18 BP and 48 karma are both big chunks of change.
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PlatonicPimp
post Dec 8 2005, 09:18 PM
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Yeah, but a Chargen, you won't have to wait to earn it.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 8 2005, 09:28 PM
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Comparatively, that's not a tough call at all. In fact, purchasing your 7th point of a skill at chargen is the second most Karma-efficient thing you can do (following purchasing Complex Forms).

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Here's the cost efficiency of various things in Karma/BP:

Attributes 5-6: 139% (18 Karma/25 BP)
Attributes 1-6: 108% (60 Karma/65 BP)
Attributes 3-6: 100% (45 Karma/45 BP)
Specializations: 100% (2 Karma/2 BP)
Skills 0-4: 73% (22 Karma/16 BP)
Spells: 60% (5 Karma/3 BP)
Skills 0-6: 55% (44 Karma/ 24 BP)
Positive Qualities: 50% (10 Karma/5 BP)
Skills 4-6: 36% (22 Karma/8 BP)
Skills 5-6: 33% (12 Karma/4 BP)
Skills 6-7: 29% (28 Karma/8 BP)
Complex Forms 0-6: 27% (22 Karma/6 BP)

OK, what does that mean? It means that if you have Aptitude you want to start with your seven, because it is totally inefficient to buy it up to seven later. It means that you want to start with as many of the positive qualities as you are going to ever want. It means that you want to start with one skill as high as it will go (I reccomend a skill that is not in a skill group like Perception) rather than multiple skills at 5. It means that an attribute should start at 5 or 1. It means that you should buy as many points of skills as you can.


From a min/max standpoint, every character should start with Aptitude and a 7th point in the appropriate skill if they ever intend to get a 7th point in anything.

-Frank
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Gothic Rose
post Dec 8 2005, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Comparatively, that's not a tough call at all. In fact, purchasing your 7th point of a skill at chargen is the second most Karma-efficient thing you can do (following purchasing Complex Forms).

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Here's the cost efficiency of various things in Karma/BP:

Attributes 5-6: 139% (18 Karma/25 BP)
Attributes 1-6: 108% (60 Karma/65 BP)
Attributes 3-6: 100% (45 Karma/45 BP)
Specializations: 100% (2 Karma/2 BP)
Skills 0-4: 73% (22 Karma/16 BP)
Spells: 60% (5 Karma/3 BP)
Skills 0-6: 55% (44 Karma/ 24 BP)
Positive Qualities: 50% (10 Karma/5 BP)
Skills 4-6: 36% (22 Karma/8 BP)
Skills 5-6: 33% (12 Karma/4 BP)
Skills 6-7: 29% (28 Karma/8 BP)
Complex Forms 0-6: 27% (22 Karma/6 BP)

OK, what does that mean? It means that if you have Aptitude you want to start with your seven, because it is totally inefficient to buy it up to seven later. It means that you want to start with as many of the positive qualities as you are going to ever want. It means that you want to start with one skill as high as it will go (I reccomend a skill that is not in a skill group like Perception) rather than multiple skills at 5. It means that an attribute should start at 5 or 1. It means that you should buy as many points of skills as you can.


From a min/max standpoint, every character should start with Aptitude and a 7th point in the appropriate skill if they ever intend to get a 7th point in anything.

-Frank

Except...not really, no.

Because one extra die in your pool is not really worth that much resource expenditure. Really, it's not. You can get bonus dice so many other ways that it's very high on the cost/effectiveness area to actually get a 7.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 8 2005, 11:45 PM
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GR, we are definitely talking past each other. While I agree that for most skills never getting a 7 is a perfectly valid option, I was saying that mathematically if you are ever going to get that 7, you should do it at chargen.

Even though 18 BPs is probably too much to spend on getting +1 die on a single test, 48 Karma is way too crazy much for that sort of thing. So if it's on your list, you should get it now rather than later.

On the other hand, Specializations are always worth it and should be purchased for every skill you own. But they are such a good deal with Karma that you should buy those specializations at the rate of a couple per adventure after play starts rather than putting BPs into them.

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QUOTE (GR)
Because one extra die in your pool is not really worth that much resource expenditure. Really, it's not.


In most cases, I agree with you completely. A few skills are exceptions, however. Gymnastics, Counterspelling, Hacking, and Electronic Warfare can all make a strong case for themselves. Mostly because they end up being rolled in a quasi-attributeless state a lot.

-Frank
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Gothic Rose
post Dec 9 2005, 01:18 AM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Even though 18 BPs is probably too much to spend on getting +1 die on a single test, 48 Karma is way too crazy much for that sort of thing. So if it's on your list, you should get it now rather than later.

On the other hand, Specializations are always worth it and should be purchased for every skill you own. But they are such a good deal with Karma that you should buy those specializations at the rate of a couple per adventure after play starts rather than putting BPs into them.

This is definitely true about both counts.

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