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> Wizkids licensing to another RPG company, Anyone know what this means?
Cain
post Dec 9 2005, 12:54 PM
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Scroll down to see the story

As most of you know, Wizkids and Jordan Wiseman are the actual owners of Shadowrun and Mechwarrior; FanPro is only a licenscee. And, like all licensces, it can be revoked.

So, we see that instead of working with one of their established partners, Jordan has chosen to go with a "new kid on the block". Pinnacle is currently a hot commodity, with Savage Worlds being heralded across the net as the Next Big Thing. Now, I know from talking with Jordan that he likes FanPro, or at least he did a few years ago. And FanPro currently handles both the old Mechwarrior and the Classic BattleTech licensces, so having someone else produce a competiting product seems kinda... odd. I don't know the terms of the licensces that FanPro has, but I'm finding it hard to believe that it wouldn't be exclusive; this means that they're likely to be prohibited from further marketing or producing any more Mechwarrior products.

What I'm wondering is this: if anyone here does know the terms of the various FanPro licensces, are they in any danger of being revoked? Is there a time limit on them? I know that Earthdawn was placed up for bid, but Shadowrun and Mechwarrior were practically handed to FanPro. Are we looking at a legal Savage Shadowrun in the near future?
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Cray74
post Dec 9 2005, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE (Cain)
What I'm wondering is this: if anyone here does know the terms of the various FanPro licensces, are they in any danger of being revoked? Is there a time limit on them?

If FanPro's licenses are being revoked, then someone needs to tell FanPro. I know they have a lot of Battletech products in the pipeline and product plans stretching years into the future.
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Tanka
post Dec 9 2005, 01:17 PM
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It only mentions the miniatures, not the actual tabletops.

Mayhaps FanPro still has hope.
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Cain
post Dec 9 2005, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE
If FanPro's licenses are being revoked, then someone needs to tell FanPro. I know they have a lot of Battletech products in the pipeline and product plans stretching years into the future.


Well, none of us knew, apparently, and Dumpshockers are about as net-savvy as they come. At any event, that's true for Classic BattleTech, but what about the old Mechwarrior stuff?

BTW, here's a better link to the same story. Coming off the Wizkids main page, we can confirm the story.
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Tanka
post Dec 9 2005, 01:49 PM
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It doesn't say anything about Shadowrun in the article, but that doesn't say much.

FanPro has hope yet.
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Patrick Goodman
post Dec 9 2005, 02:14 PM
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If anything is happening to the Shadowrun RPG license, nobody's told the company or the freelancers. I don't think we need to scream about the sky falling anytime soon; FanPro's got a substantial roster of products for a couple of different game lines coming up.

Pinnacle, by the way, is hardly the "new kid on the block", unless you count a company better than ten years old with one of the most successful game lines at the time (in the form of Deadlands) as a new kid. Myself, I'm willing to cut them some slack.
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Synner
post Dec 9 2005, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (Cain)
Scroll down to see the storySo, we see that instead of working with one of their established partners, Jordan has chosen to go with a "new kid on the block". Pinnacle is currently a hot commodity, with Savage Worlds being heralded across the net as the Next Big Thing. Now, I know from talking with Jordan that he likes FanPro, or at least he did a few years ago. And FanPro currently handles both the old Mechwarrior and the Classic BattleTech licensces, so having someone else produce a competiting product seems kinda... odd. I don't know the terms of the licensces that FanPro has, but I'm finding it hard to believe that it wouldn't be exclusive; this means that they're likely to be prohibited from further marketing or producing any more Mechwarrior products

Licenses are exclusive for the properties they cover. FanPro has the license to produce RPG products (and only RPG no novels) for the Shadowrun and Battletech Classic properties.

You are also mistakenly assuming that FanPro was interested and would have the infrastructure to take on and develop these new properties. Maybe FanPro simply passed on the option to maintain focused on on the three properties it does support (SR, BTC and The Dark Eye).

QUOTE
What I'm wondering is this: if anyone here does know the terms of the various FanPro licensces, are they in any danger of being revoked?

No.

QUOTE
Is there a time limit on them?

Yes. Though normally such contracts are auto-renewing unless one of the parts wants out and that rarely- if ever- comes out of the blue.

QUOTE
I know that Earthdawn was placed up for bid, but Shadowrun and Mechwarrior were practically handed to FanPro.  Are we looking at a legal Savage Shadowrun in the near future?

Not for the forseeable future.
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Cain
post Dec 9 2005, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE
Pinnacle, by the way, is hardly the "new kid on the block", unless you count a company better than ten years old with one of the most successful game lines at the time (in the form of Deadlands) as a new kid. Myself, I'm willing to cut them some slack.

I stand corrected. Shall we say that Savage Worlds is the new kid on the block, which also happens to be a hot property, with a ton of support and a huge fanbase? If you take a look at their site, most of their products seems to be centered around Savage Worlds in some way or another.

QUOTE
Licenses are exclusive for the properties they cover. FanPro has the license to produce RPG products (and only RPG no novels) for the Shadowrun and Battletech Classic properties.

You are also mistakenly assuming that FanPro was interested and would have the infrastructure to take on and develop these new properties. Maybe FanPro simply passed on the option to maintain focused on on the three properties it does support (SR, BTC and The Dark Eye).

FanPro is also producing (or reprinting, at least) the old Mechwarrior RPG. That would put them into direct competition with PEG for Mechwarrior-based RPGs. Even if the license only extends to the Classic BT stuff, this seems entirely too close to one another. There's no logical reason for FanPro to pass on an existing product, unless it wasn't offered to them in the first place... and I cannot imagine Wizkids simply forgetting about an existing license.
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Roadspike
post Dec 9 2005, 04:16 PM
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You'll note that the only reference to MechWarrior in the top article linked is to a scenario book for the tabletop miniatures game, not for a Roleplaying Game. Very different things...
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Bull
post Dec 9 2005, 04:30 PM
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NOVEMBER 29th 2005 (Los Gatos, CA) – WizKids Inc., creators of the Constructible Strategy Game and Collectable Miniatures Game genres has granted award-winning game publishers Pinnacle Entertainment Group the rights to produce and support a range of roleplaying books for its game properties, including the Pirates and Rocketmen Constructible Strategy Games and the Mage Knight Collectable Miniatures Game.

The deal also allows GWG to support such genre-defining products as Pirates of the Spanish Main and MechWarrior with a series of scenario books, including new rules, games pieces, and fiction, bringing an additional level of fun and a new twist to some of WizKids’ best-loved properties.


As Roadspike mentioned (Heya man :)), scenario books for Mechwarrior are a very different thing than producing Classic Battletech product.

Beyond that though, CBT and Shadowrun really aren't even mentioned. What is mentioned though is Pirates of the Spanish Main, Rocketmen, and Mage Knight. I'd heard a while back that Mage Knight was getting the RPG treatment, and this looks to be it. Could be cool.

I don't really know Savage Worlds real well, but it seems to be very much a Pulp Action oriented game system. It's not really a "new" game, as it's been around a few years now, and it's always been something of a "Sleeper" game. Popular among certain crowds, but not real well known in the "mainstream" gaming audience.

Could be cool though. And far as I know, and to echo Synner, Shadowrun and CBT ain't planning to go anywhere, at least for the next couple years. FanPro and WizKids seem to have a pretty good relationship, and WK seems pretty happy with how things are going for both games.

Bull
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the_dunner
post Dec 9 2005, 04:33 PM
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The word that was passed to the Commandos regarding this agreement with PEG, was, and I quote:

"FanPro neither desired, sought, nor competed for these licenses."
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Shadow
post Dec 9 2005, 05:53 PM
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That's odd, why say anything at all?
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Bull
post Dec 9 2005, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (Shadow)
That's odd, why say anything at all?

Probably because Commando's were asking about it. Aqcuisition of new games directly effects them, because they're FanPro's demo team.

Bull
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mfb
post Dec 9 2005, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE (Cain)
Shall we say that Savage Worlds is the new kid on the block, which also happens to be a hot property, with a ton of support and a huge fanbase?

Savage Worlds is basically a new edition of the Deadlands classic rules. they're greatly simplified (Deadlands is awesome, but it's like running SR3 vehicle combat every fight), but it's the same basic mechanics.
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Grinder
post Dec 10 2005, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
(Deadlands is awesome, but it's like running SR3 vehicle combat every fight),

Ah, i'm not the only one with that thought. :D

Running a fight with 5 chars vs. 6 faceless thugs, 3 mid-level npcs and some critters is a guaranteed headache. The severe one, with bleeding nose and ears...
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hobgoblin
post Dec 10 2005, 02:07 AM
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i have said it before, and i say it again, ill never understand what was wrong with the SR3 vehicle rules. or for that matter the matrix rules :smokin:

hmm, classical deadlands, i have the weird west kind sitting around here...
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eidolon
post Dec 10 2005, 02:13 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (Cain)
Shall we say that Savage Worlds is the new kid on the block, which also happens to be a hot property, with a ton of support and a huge fanbase?

Savage Worlds is basically a new edition of the Deadlands classic rules. they're greatly simplified (Deadlands is awesome, but it's like running SR3 vehicle combat every fight), but it's the same basic mechanics.

That's why I wrote up a new initiative system for it when we played for a few months. The one from the system sucks ass.

Basically, I retained the "cool" factors (cards instead of dice for init) but cut out a lot of the tedium.
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Adam
post Dec 10 2005, 04:53 AM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
hmm, classical deadlands, i have the weird west kind sitting around here...

That's what people mean by "Classic" Deadlands. The upcoming Savage Worlds version will be called "Deadlands Reloaded."
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mfb
post Dec 10 2005, 07:49 AM
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i loved the init system of Deadlands. the tedious part is... well, honestly, every individual rule was interesting and well-crafted. it's just that there were so damn many of them. i'm actually running a game of it, tabletop. we've gotten fairly proficient with it in only a few sessions. i do keep forgetting to roll wind damage with every hit, though.
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Cain
post Dec 10 2005, 08:18 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (Cain)
Shall we say that Savage Worlds is the new kid on the block, which also happens to be a hot property, with a ton of support and a huge fanbase?

Savage Worlds is basically a new edition of the Deadlands classic rules. they're greatly simplified (Deadlands is awesome, but it's like running SR3 vehicle combat every fight), but it's the same basic mechanics.

I don't remember the Deadlands classic set much, I only played it one drunken night at a con. However, I've been toying with Savage Worlds a lot recently. I managed to run a battle with over thirty different characters, each performing different actions, in less than twenty-five minutes. Nobody got lost or forgotten, rules look-ups were kept to a minimum (mostly thanks to some very nice quick reference sheets) and the action kept flowing nicely. Just based on that, I'd say that Savage Worlds runs a *lot* smoother than Deadlands ever did.
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mfb
post Dec 10 2005, 08:26 AM
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yeah. Savage Worlds has really attracted my interest, what little i've been able to glean before the guys at my FLGS chase me from the building for peeing on strangers. maybe if i have any internal organs left after i pay my tuition, i'll sell a kidney and pick up all the Savage Worlds stuff.
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 10 2005, 05:30 PM
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From what I've seen, Savage Worlds is interesting—a little soft for my taste, and it goes the "PCs are special" route which I don't like, but it's overall very playable from my experience. It does have some sizable holes, though (it has the SR3 6=7 bug, but since multiple die types are used this is magnified to the point where at certain TNs it is more advantageous to have the next-lower die type than the larger one).

I'm not about to buy it, but I wouldn't have to think twice if given the opportunity to play it.

~J
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mfb
post Dec 11 2005, 07:56 AM
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yeah, Deadlands has a fair number of mechanical problems which i'm not surprised to see popping up in Savage Worlds. but it's got such style.
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Roadspike
post Dec 12 2005, 04:26 PM
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I agree with Kagetenshi on all points but the last one. I've been having so much fun in the campaign one of my co-workers is running right now that I might buy the base book.
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Cain
post Dec 12 2005, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
From what I've seen, Savage Worlds is interesting—a little soft for my taste, and it goes the "PCs are special" route which I don't like, but it's overall very playable from my experience. It does have some sizable holes, though (it has the SR3 6=7 bug, but since multiple die types are used this is magnified to the point where at certain TNs it is more advantageous to have the next-lower die type than the larger one).

After playing Savage Worlds for a bit, I've discovered that the 6=7 bug doesn't pop up as often as you might think it would. Really, it only applies when you've only got d6's to use, which doesn't happen often in trait tests. It does pop up on damage rolls, but that's not an inconvenience.

I also don't understand how the math for what you describe actually works. On a d4, the odds of getting a 4=5 is 1:4. But on a d6, the odds of getting a 5 or better is 1:3. On a d6, the odds of getting a 7 is 1:6; on a d8, it's 1:4. And so on. Could you clarify? My math skills aren't the strongest, so I could be missing something.

I can also promise you that Savage Worlds is every bit as fast, furious, and fun as advertised. Last night, we tried a supers game for the first time. There were the three of us against ten drones, two lieutenants, one commander, and three almost-equal supers. Nineteen people participated in the battle, each one taking different actions. No one was shoved to the side and forgotten, everyone got to act independently, and the whole battle was over in less than twenty minutes. And with that much opposition, we were sweating bullets the whole time!

Savage Worlds isn't for those who like heavy number-crunching in their games, and it's not for those who like a lot of fine detail. Unlike many other games, though, Savage World doesn't even attempt to do any of that; all it does is focus on being as fast and easy as possible. It's not "rules lite", though, so there are a lot of tactical options and considerations you get to make. I'm slowly being converted to a Savage Worlds fan, so I'd encourage anyone to try it out.

Blatant plug time: click here to buy the pdf on DriveThruRpg.com. It's currently on sale for under $20, well worth the money. And you'll be helping me out in the process. 8) Must...feed...gaming...addiction....
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