IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> New Metamagic Idea for SR3: Compressed Circles, Hermetic Conjuring made Convient!
akarenti
post Dec 12 2005, 08:37 AM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 152
Joined: 24-October 04
Member No.: 6,785



I would like to propose a Metamagic idea for scrutiny;

Compressed Circles--(may only be used by Hermetic Magicians...at least they're the only ones who could marginally benefit from it :) )

Compressed Circles would allow a magican to draw a Hermetic Circle of a given Force in a smaller radius by creating a much more elaborate design. The initiate may subtract his a number of meters less than or equal to his Initiate Grade from the the diameter of the circle. Compressing a circle requires much more effort on the behalf of the magician; increase the amount of time required to draw the circle by a number of hours equal to the number of meters the circle's diameter is below it's force; also, add the reduction of diameter in meters to the effective Force when determining the cost of materials.

Just something I thought might make Hermetic's lives a little easier; I realized that a 6 meter circle won't fit much of anywhere a Shadowrunner would likely be...so I figured this might make Conjuring and Ritual Magic a little more reasonable (for someone who doesn't have lavish magic R&D labs or 50 kajillion square foot estates). Also an interesting tool for ultra-creepy undground cults/ritual circles.

<Edit: I think this thought occured to me a while ago; or I may have read it somewhere...so if either of those are the case, pls redirect this to that previous post or source>
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ancient History
post Dec 12 2005, 01:07 PM
Post #2


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,748
Joined: 5-July 02
Member No.: 2,935



Hindu and TIbetan mandalas, Shadows of Asia.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PBTHHHHT
post Dec 12 2005, 01:19 PM
Post #3


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,174
Joined: 13-May 04
From: UCAS
Member No.: 6,327



Dang Ancient, what do you not know?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ancient History
post Dec 12 2005, 01:21 PM
Post #4


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,748
Joined: 5-July 02
Member No.: 2,935



Whether Captain Chaos wore boxers or briefs. Sadly, the point is moot now. He was buried without underwear.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Aku
post Dec 12 2005, 01:28 PM
Post #5


Running, running, running
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,220
Joined: 18-October 04
From: North Carolina
Member No.: 6,769



its an interesting idea, but what would happen if the initiates grade is > than the force? Does the circle need no space, does it actually GIVE the initate more space. expanding the time-space continuim (? lol, WTF am i talking about here?).

Personally, i think there should be a minimum requirement, even with this, for ease of math, make it one, for."beleiveability", make it 1/2 or 1/4th, rounded...down, of the original force, so that say a force 8 circle, by a grade 8 or higher mage, could be no smaller than 4 or 2 meters.

Secondly, i think circles don't take long enough as it is (force=hours to construct, i think it is), so i dont think, that for an intricate design, doubling, or even tripling the time of the reduction would be uncalled for.

Finally, i dont think that that6 meters of space would really be all that hard to come by for a 'runner, i mean, why else would there be abandoned warehouses throughout the barrens, if not to provide a shadowrunner a large, semi safe area (once the squatters know someone who's willing to defend it is in there now)? Even at force 10, you shold be able to fit a few in a warehouse floor.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PBTHHHHT
post Dec 12 2005, 01:51 PM
Post #6


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,174
Joined: 13-May 04
From: UCAS
Member No.: 6,327



QUOTE (Ancient History)
Whether Captain Chaos wore boxers or briefs. Sadly, the point is moot now. He was buried without underwear.

Maybe he just went commando?
ugh.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ed_209a
post Dec 12 2005, 01:51 PM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 944
Joined: 19-February 03
Member No.: 4,128



I wonder if you couldn't do the same thing without metamagic using concentric circles. 2 circles at half the diameter, for example.

You up the difficulty, to scare off the newbies, and to reflect that you have to account for interaction between the circles.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ShadowDragon8685
post Dec 12 2005, 01:57 PM
Post #8


Horror
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,322
Joined: 15-June 05
From: BumFuck, New Jersey
Member No.: 7,445



QUOTE (Ancient History)
Whether Captain Chaos wore boxers or briefs. Sadly, the point is moot now. He was buried without underwear.

CC always struck me as a boxers sort...

But why was he buried without underwear? (And, one would assume, without the rest of his clothes? Ugh.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ancient History
post Dec 12 2005, 02:03 PM
Post #9


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,748
Joined: 5-July 02
Member No.: 2,935



Well when they had the whip-around for the funeral, there was a bit of disagreement as to how exactly his remains should be disposed. So they buried him on a ship, on fire, under a mound. 'course, CC was a card-carrying member of the Church of Mother Earth, Inc., hence he had to go 'au naturale' to 'maximize exposed surface area for reclamation of monads to propogate the cycle of life and afterlife.' It's said that a few Cossack deckers slew a dozen corporate deckers and laid them at his feet to act as his slaves in the hereafter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Oracle
post Dec 12 2005, 02:05 PM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 934
Joined: 26-August 05
From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover
Member No.: 7,624



QUOTE (Ed_209a)
I wonder if you couldn't do the same thing without metamagic using concentric circles. 2 circles at half the diameter, for example.

What you describe is basically what you do when you use the mentioned metamagic. You raise the complexity of the drawn circle instead of the size. But you still need the metamagical technique for it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PBTHHHHT
post Dec 12 2005, 03:36 PM
Post #11


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,174
Joined: 13-May 04
From: UCAS
Member No.: 6,327



QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Dec 12 2005, 09:21 AM)
Whether Captain Chaos wore boxers or briefs. Sadly, the point is moot now. He was buried without underwear.

CC always struck me as a boxers sort...

But why was he buried without underwear? (And, one would assume, without the rest of his clothes? Ugh.)

Worse yet... Ancient had to go check...
*peers over in Ancient's direction and goes back to the huddle with everyone else that's concerned... not much probably*
I think it's time for an intervention.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fix-it
post Dec 12 2005, 04:28 PM
Post #12


Creating a god with his own hands
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,405
Joined: 30-September 02
From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
Member No.: 3,364



QUOTE (Ancient History)
Hindu and TIbetan mandalas, Shadows of Asia.

but can this technique be applied to all traditions???

(hasn't read SOA)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lindt
post Dec 12 2005, 04:58 PM
Post #13


Man In The Machine
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,264
Joined: 26-February 02
From: I-495 S
Member No.: 1,105



But I read SF, and was more then plesently suprised to see AH in there a number of times.

And Im of the firm belief that Capt was a commando man. Hell, Im thinking pants where strictly optional.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mr Cjelli
post Dec 12 2005, 05:00 PM
Post #14


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 62
Joined: 14-January 05
Member No.: 6,976



Seems like an interesting idea. While I imagine it would be damned useful for an aspected conjurer Hermetic, I don't think it's particularly game breaking.

I always though aspected conjurer's really had it rough when it came to metamagic choices. Asides from the stuff available to pretty much every awakened character, they only have Invoking and Channeling...okay, only two really awesome metamagics. I just wish I had more options for my Obeyifa.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheHappyAnarchis...
post Dec 12 2005, 05:33 PM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 203
Joined: 18-November 05
Member No.: 7,978



You could adapt Centering to apply to conjuring tests for aspected magicians. Kind of the same way that it can be used for different things for adepts?

I really like the idea of this metamagic though.

I would probably make there be a limit or 1/4 the original size. I would allow extra meters unused to reduce the time. For each meter you could reduce it that you are not able to, reduce the time by 1 hour?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bclements
post Dec 12 2005, 05:48 PM
Post #16


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,507
Joined: 27-January 05
From: ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
Member No.: 7,021



QUOTE (Lindt)
And Im of the firm belief that Capt was a commando man. Hell, Im thinking pants where strictly optional.

Kilts all the way, baby.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mr Cjelli
post Dec 12 2005, 05:55 PM
Post #17


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 62
Joined: 14-January 05
Member No.: 6,976



QUOTE (TheHappyAnarchist)
You could adapt Centering to apply to conjuring tests for aspected magicians. Kind of the same way that it can be used for different things for adepts?

Centering does apply to conjuring. However, I feel centering isn't particularly useful for a dedicated conjurer.

I maintain that Centering is not a useful means with which to gain extra successes or resist drain: it allows you in essence to make a complimentary skill roll; except, you have to pay for two skills to use it (one of which is an active skill). Centering 4/Knowledge Skill 4 will cost you 24 karma. Ignoring monetary costs, you're better off using a power focus to get yourself more successes.

Centering is far more useful for countering TN penalties. However, since Hermetics summon elementals under controlled circumstances, they will rarely face TN modifiers while summoning. Ditto goes for conjuring great forms and for obeyifa. It's a different story for standard nature spirits, though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Snow_Fox
post Dec 12 2005, 07:37 PM
Post #18


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,577
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Gwynedd Valley PA
Member No.: 1,221



To get back on topic, I always thought of cap in things... oh sorry, wrong topic.

Yes i like the iead of the compressed space but because it would be considered a higher level of detail, I'd increase the library need, by like 50% so to create a compressed circle at L6, you need a 9th level library. This should represent the greater resources needed. For example your basic L6 library will give you the detail you need for an L6 circle. To compress it, you would need a more advanced library to give details on how to do that, after all, if it was in the basic library who'd go with the larger, quicker one?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akarenti
post Dec 13 2005, 07:21 AM
Post #19


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 152
Joined: 24-October 04
Member No.: 6,785



Well, guys, thanks for the all the feedback (for some reason I expected to be flamed viciously for suggesting a new metamagic).

A few things that were brought up:

Minimum size of the circle--It was always my understanding (and I may be wrong on this) that the circle has to be large enough to contain the magician and/or conjuring/sorcery materials, so I couldn't see one being drawn much less than 2 or 3 meters in diameter. I think it would be a good rule of thumb to not allow a circle to be compressed to less than 1/2 it's normal size. I can see how allowing more than that could raise questions in a higher end game, but most of my characters don't usally intiate much past Grade 3 or 4 (we do mostly short-term series of runs and then move on to new groups to keep things interesting).

Increasing Library requirements--I kind of like the idea of require more complex libraries, but I think that would make the techique incredibly difficult to use (if you have access to a Rating 9 library, you probably have access to a normal rating 6 circle somewhere private). So I guess I would grit my teeth and say "learning the metamagic gives the initiate the knowledge." If that turned out to be too easy, I would probably add a knowledge skill requirement (could only compress circles up to your rank in the Circle Compression or other apropriate knowledge skill or something like that).


Oh, and sadly I have not picked up Shadows of Asia yet; hope to over the holidays :D But I'll have to check it out.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Dec 13 2005, 04:21 PM
Post #20


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



Heh, regarding minimum circle size, it might be fun to have the conjurer wear the circle as an article of clothing or something, but maybe that's a little out there? :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mr Cjelli
post Dec 13 2005, 05:31 PM
Post #21


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 62
Joined: 14-January 05
Member No.: 6,976



A force 6 hulahoop!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Snow_Fox
post Dec 17 2005, 03:45 AM
Post #22


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,577
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Gwynedd Valley PA
Member No.: 1,221



That was some brit horror film about a demon of a drilling rig, it possessed people by biting them. The film ended when he bit someone with a cirlce of power tatooed on his waist trapping the demon.

As for library, I like the idea of a complex library-well it was my suggestion- but having a pretty good familiarity with occult tomes it owuld make a lot of snese to me.

as for the contents, another part of the summoning in a ocmpressed circle might mean you need a smaller source. like for an l6 elements instead of a bon fire, just a hibachi of flaming coals would work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th May 2024 - 01:41 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.