 Subdual combat? |
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 Dec 13 2005, 02:34 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 14-November 05 Member No.: 7,961  |
Im making an unarmed fighting adept.
I was at first building him to deal lethal unarmed damage but then I asked why? Isn't an unconcsious enemy just the same as a dead one? If your fighting one guy, and you knock him out, should be pretty easy to kill him right? Why not spec. in "Subdual combat" and not buy killing hands? I only downside is that I wont be able to attack spirits anymore. |
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Dec 13 2005, 02:39 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 |
Or vehicles! |
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Dec 13 2005, 02:49 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 14-November 05 Member No.: 7,961 |
My GM would have a laughing fit if I tried to destroy a vehicle with my bare fists anyways.
I can just imagine the critical glitches that would end up happening.. GM: The car takes off towards you tires screeching, what do you do? Me: I jumpkick it! |
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Dec 13 2005, 03:34 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Shades of Sin City's Marv with the police car.
Per the RAW, even a Str 16 troll with bone aug 4 and a zillion levels of Critical Strike couldn't even scratch the paint on a Dodge Scoot. I have a problem with that. |
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Dec 13 2005, 04:09 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
I always interpreted that they could do plenty of cosmetic damage, but they couldn't do damage that affected the performance of the vehicle. Knocking a dent into a car is a lot easier than knocking a wheel off. |
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Dec 13 2005, 04:24 PM
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#6
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I have seen people make up killing hands (or stunning hands) that cost less and just boost your normal melee damage to S and D without turning it physical. How much its worth is debatable, however. I would NOT make it more expensive than the current killing hands and just pretend you already have Moderate for free, but I wouldn't make it much cheaper either.
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Dec 13 2005, 04:48 PM
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#7
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Punching a hole in the windshield in front of the driver would affect performance. Especially if you had about 3 feet of follow-thru. :) That's more of a called shot though (page 162), but if it involves punching a still vehicle it shouldn't involve a full -4 die. Unless it is hardened glass, which is likely part of what gives the Nightsky it's high armour rating, i know sidewindows are very doable. As well...
You laugh, but a good friend of mine actually saw this occur. He was at a party. A couple of guys were lipping each other off and decided to take it outside. Only the rules of engagement were "fluid", while the one guy goes out to the street the other hops in his car (to leave?). The pedestrian decides to stand his ground in the middle of the street and as the car comes towards him he jumps and lands his ass down on the hood, feet towards the windshield. He uses the momentum of the car coupled with him kicking downwards to spiderweb and partially cave in the entire front windshield with the bottom of his feet/heels. He then rolled off the side of the hood as the car kept going. Straight out of a freaking B-movie. EDIT: In SR4 rule terms, he was likely hopped up on Cram or Novacoke. This was in the late 80's, so it wasn't meth. But it could have been an earlier version of speed, or quite easily cocaine because although it was rural Saskatchewan it was in an oilpatch area so the Robin Williams Rule may have been in effect. My friend stopped going to house parties in that town after that. I tell you, there are some crazy-ass people out there. Of course if the windshield hadn't broken the force would have gone straight up the pedestrians legs and busted something bad. Same as punching the side window, you better make sure you hit it hard enough to do damage or it is going to hurt like hell. It'll still hurt, but there is less chance of your hand being in cast for a few months if the window breaks clean away.
I'm not sure I follow the math/rules on this? How does this go again? |
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Dec 13 2005, 07:33 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
By the way, the "Subdual combat" specialization doesn't describe doing stun damage. That isn't subdual damage in shadowrun, you may be thinking of DND. In shadowrun subdual combat is when you try to Pin your oppent rather than hit him, a la Wrestling. Check out the unarmed combat chapter for details.
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Dec 13 2005, 08:10 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Just hit it with the planet :) Pick the thing up, bash it against the concrete. Or do a little creative application of the RAW. Treat it as a barrier test, see how much damage you do. |
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Dec 13 2005, 08:48 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Vehicles and drones just need to not be immune to Stun damage. Or say that they take half Stun as Physical, or somethin'.
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Dec 13 2005, 10:12 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
I disagree. Lots of people punch hard enough to knock me out cold, but I don't know anyone that can punch hard enough to make a car inoperable. |
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Dec 13 2005, 10:14 PM
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#12
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
To quote Rick James, "Cocaine's a hell of a drug." |
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Dec 13 2005, 10:28 PM
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#13
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Huh? With Bone Augmention/Killing Hands, you do physical damage... thus being able to trash cars with your bare hands. |
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Dec 13 2005, 10:52 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 178 Joined: 4-September 05 Member No.: 7,682 |
Random thought....
Considering the mass of a Troll (comparable to a large motorcycle or possibly even a small car, like the 2006 Smart) and the fact that Trolls also have comparble Body stats and can run quite quickly, what about Trolls just running into things (or people)? Wouldn't they do comparable damage to a small vehicle moving at 35-50 meters/turn? |
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Dec 13 2005, 11:00 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
True; strike the bones. Critical Strike still holds. |
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