 Great Dragon stats |
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 Dec 16 2005, 12:51 PM
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#1
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Uncle Fisty  Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928  |
'Couple things I've got a beef about
1) magic rating of 12. These are supposed to be the ultimate ass-kicker-you-can't-touch-them-toughies in the game, and their magic attribute is in the area of something that a serious mage could achieve whithin their lifetime ( assuming human) with work. Not to mention a runner that works at nothing but for a few years. GD magic has already been a bit off, but this stinks. 2) claw/bite damage. The fact that a great dragon w/ a +10 str over the adult feathered serpent (for example) does the same exact damage. I DO like the way they work the breath weapon now though. And the fact that they can get a sorcery group skill half again as much the best human can possibly achieve (spellcasting aptitude 7 vs sorcery group 10) if you use rule caps. At least they get something that really sets them apart. And Twist fate is cool. Re-roll all successes only! Ouch! :D |
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Dec 16 2005, 01:05 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 6-August 02 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 3,071 |
I think they need more Edge...
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Dec 16 2005, 01:06 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
That power at least got a huge uptune thanks to the new dice mechanic. Buh-bye, 2/3 successes! |
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Dec 16 2005, 01:28 PM
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#4
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
It seems like they should get more, but if they did, that along with Twist Fate alone (since it works off of using edge) would be enough to kill anyone/anything/any group. GD's should be abel to do that, yes, but not with just one power (IMO). |
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Dec 16 2005, 01:59 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,067 |
I dunno. I think it is just pure luck as to whether a starting, street-level Shadowrunner can kill a great dragon.. and if the GD can twist fate, well that takes luck out of the picture. ;)
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Dec 16 2005, 02:05 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 13-January 03 Member No.: 3,902 |
Yeah, the magic rating seems absolutly wrong. And a skillrating of 10 is nothing , if you think of the thousands of years the greats have had to practice. They never should have listed the skillratings or the magic rating. In S3 at least they could have a immense karmapoll, so you could make them somewhat powerful. This new shit is rubbish, in my opinion.
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Dec 16 2005, 02:55 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Not all great dragons need to be from the Fourth World. The GM can probably bump up the stats on the big players without worrying.
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Dec 16 2005, 03:13 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
Well assuming that even the smaller dragons where asleep during the 5th World, i would deem a new 6th World Great Dragon unlikely.
According to p.15-16 of Dragons of the Sixth World, the timespan to become an adult dragon takes "several centuries". I theorize that during hibernation the body and mind of a "young" dragon don't develop much, so i assume that the dragons have to be active several centuries to become an adult. After that, the timespan to become a "Great Dragon" is unknown, but i think it should also take a long time, at least "several centuries". Since no "very powerfull, but yet not great" Dragons have entered the official stage of the powerplayers i can't assume "new" Great Dragons have spawned in the 6th World. IIRC Do6thW mentions Ryumyo as the youngest of the Great Dragons, and he is from the 4th World. But as long as i didn't find it again in the book, this stems from my memory. |
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Dec 16 2005, 03:14 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I'll comfortably buy that. (Your memory, not the book.) |
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Dec 16 2005, 03:49 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 24-August 05 Member No.: 7,608 |
According to Dot6W Masaru became a "formal" GD in 2042. (stated in his timeline). Whaetver "formal GD" means.
And I assume "Magic" in the stat section means 12 without any magic points added via initiation. |
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Dec 16 2005, 03:50 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 296 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Usually under a cat Member No.: 864 |
Nope. The youngest of the Greats is Masaru, who achieved Greatness in the Sixth World (in 2048, IIRC). Ryumyu was the first Great to appear in the Sixth World. Big difference. :) There have been no other published accounts of adult dragons becoming Great after the Awakening. |
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Dec 16 2005, 03:52 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
Found it myself just a minute ago ^^''.
Since becoming a Great Dragon is quite difficult and time consuming, we can safely assume, that another one won't pop up anytime soon. |
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Dec 16 2005, 04:01 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I've been huckstered!
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Dec 16 2005, 04:58 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
As to the earlier discussion of the stats being too low the main book stats are, to me, just a template. But even then they are still scary. See what that "weak" GD with his 5-10 Force 12 Bound Spirits can do to the team, not to mention a Force 12 Stun ball which the dragon can fling around almost at will, especially with its Force 12 Power Focus.
Certain dragons like Dollmaker...I mean Ghostwalker, would have a HUGE number of spirit and mortal servants. Lowfyr literally has armies and a huge number of crack guardians at his beck and call. Alamais has been fighting the Elven Court since at least the early days of the 4th Age. And all it takes is a quick perusal of Asian mythology to give some ideas what the Celestials would be able to do (Lung and Ryumyu). |
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Dec 18 2005, 02:32 AM
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#15
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
For some reason I doubt it involves Lofwyr in a tuxedo, though for the life of me now, I can't get that mental image out of my head. |
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Dec 18 2005, 03:48 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 21-December 04 Member No.: 6,893 |
Any more info about Masaru?
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Dec 18 2005, 05:37 AM
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#17
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Anything else you'd like to know? -Frank |
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Dec 18 2005, 05:46 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 21-December 04 Member No.: 6,893 |
That should be fine, thanks. Masaru looks to be a very interesting dragon, indeed. |
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Dec 18 2005, 01:37 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Also, I'll point out that because it takes a dragon 2000 years to become a great (according to the unpublished ED Dragons book on AH's site), there should be some more borderline-non-Great Dragons. Basically, all of the adult dragons listed in that should be borderline Greats by now (assuming 1000-2000 years in between ED-time and the start of the 5th Age, which is reasonable because they've just recently come out of their kaers after the Scourge).
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Dec 18 2005, 02:33 PM
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#20
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
The fact that Masaru is the director of the WWF is hilarious to me. Imagine him flying into a board meeting:
Masaru: "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN... how are we proceeding in our efforts to curtail Gorilla poaching in the Congo?" Schlub A: "Er.. um... very well, sir. We've got the local government authorities to enforce some of the laws surrounding that..." Masaru: "EXCELLENT. All is proceeding according to my plans. JONES! Where is Jones?" Jones: "Here, sir." Masaru: "It is your task to see to the protection of the Giant Panda habitats in Guangzhou. DO NOT FAIL ME, LEST YOU FEEL MY WRATH!" Jones pees himself in terror. |
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Dec 18 2005, 02:48 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 13-December 05 Member No.: 8,068 |
I'll give you that technically, a human can reach a magic rating of 12. But it takes six levels of initiation, plus about 294 Karma just for the 6 magic and initiation. Not only that, but he'll be maxed at 6 for Mental Attributes (maybe 7 with Exceptional Attribute) while the GD will have 13's in all their Mental Attributes. That's at least 4 more bound Force 12 spirits, not to mention the ability to resist drain and other spellcasting bonuses.
Not to mention their physical attributes, base Sorcery skill of 10 and Conjuring skill of 8 (both of which are above any human's max) and other assorted goodies, like an Initiative of 24. Even with almost unlimited Karma, a PC will never be on a completely level playing field with a GD, even if they can come close in one area. Throw in Twist Fate and it becomes completely lopsided. So a Magic of 12 may seem low for a GD, but I think with everything else, it's pretty reasonable. That said, if it seems to low, give all you GD's 18 Magic. They're supposed to be near unstoppable by mortals, and really, with Twist Fate on the table, does another 6 Magic really make them that much nastier compared to what they can already do? |
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Dec 18 2005, 03:09 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
They are all a great source of power.
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Dec 18 2005, 05:33 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 24-August 05 Member No.: 7,608 |
Well, I got a liitle problem if it is a purely formal question if one is a GD or not. I think it takes this... "astral cocooning" reported by shadowtalk in Dot6W. It shouldn't be a fromal question to become a GD after you left this cocoon after a long time and a good 50% bigger than before. On the other hand - dragons are way to formal anyway. Perhaps becoming a "formal GD" just involves waiting some decades to show patience. Does soemone know what it takes to become a GD? (Earthdawn sources?). I'm thinking of a weird storyline about a special dragon by now... PS) I'm sorry if my post sounds odd, I don't get many possibilities to use my english. |
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Dec 18 2005, 07:57 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 5,623 |
The twelve magic listed for Great Dragons is the base they can have uninitiated. Add in several thousand years worth of initiating and you are looking at possibly something in the mid twenties or higher for a typical GD? As for the dragons physical attacks I simply ruled that the dragons claws are on a level with swords making damage (St/2)+3. That comes out to 28 physical against impact armor (if any). Most characters are going to go splatt under that kinda assault.
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