 How do we do we make two-weapon fighting matter? |
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 Dec 23 2005, 02:23 AM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
If dice pools are split up, then how does it help you in any way to have two weapons?
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 Dec 23 2005, 03:07 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 9-October 05 Member No.: 7,827 |
only thing I can think of is to wait till you build your skill up and when it is high enough you just have extra-dice to distribute
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Dec 23 2005, 03:09 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
[edit] eh, never mind
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 Dec 23 2005, 03:14 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 9-October 05 Member No.: 7,827 |
and just remember Acid, RoadFlares/BlowTorches, Shanks, PepperSpray/MACE
Also is it possible to have PepperSpray/MACE intergrated into a Cyberarm? |
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Dec 23 2005, 05:39 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
I have a question, if you have a skill recorder does it add a dice to each pool?
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Dec 23 2005, 11:38 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
Actually, that's a good point. If you split your pool, do Dice Pool modifiers then apply to both? If so, it's not quite so bad.
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Dec 23 2005, 12:45 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
Dice Pool Modifiers are applied after splitting your Dice Pool (p. 141). So, yes, anything modifying your pool applies to both parts.
The german errata (i'm still waiting for the english version of this), howsoever, changed the description of the Reflex Recorder. It now adds to the skill directly, and doesn't provide bonus dice. Thus it falls under the skill cap, and will be splitted with your dice pool. |
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Dec 23 2005, 03:48 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Penalties apply, too. So TWF while blind is just nigh-impossible.
You'd think it'd be actually more effective, what with twice the flailing going on. |
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Dec 23 2005, 07:16 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 17-September 05 Member No.: 7,754 |
You use single shot weapons like the big-ass revolver, and just do one shot with each weapon per action phase. |
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Dec 23 2005, 07:32 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Your base damage can be applied more often, provided you're hitting your targets. Situation #1: Bob shoots Steve once with 4 net hits. Steve takes (Base Damage)+4 damage. Situation #2: Bob shoots Steve twice with 1 net hit each. Steve takes (Base Damage)+1, then he takes another dose of (Base Damage)+1. It's only particularly useful when your base damage is significant and you have enough pool to get at least one net hit on each shot. |
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Dec 23 2005, 07:40 PM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Deadly combo is the hidden gun arm slides. Arm yourself as a free action. Two weapon fighting allows a shot with each gun on a Simple Action...thus SA pistols have 2 shots each(4 shots total). Sure, you'll get higher damage straigh up with one weapon, but again, having to dodge(and soak), Base Damage or Base Damage +1 or so FOUR times is pretty rough.
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Dec 23 2005, 07:50 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
That's one way ... we still discuss how smartlink works in this special case. Current thinking ist, you need to take a free action to switch smartlink to the other weapon. Of course you could alwys use use smartlink on the same weapon - so one shot would have a bonus, the other wouldn't. We are discussing if you could have smartlink active on both - since you don't use two guns at the same time (you first fire one, in the next action the other). One crosshair might have another color, so you don't get confused ;). Using two semiautomatics has other advantages, so your target is likely get hit twice. They have to resist damage twice, if you are good enough to score that one hit you need... and don't forget that for every shot, the opponent gets a -1 modifier on his defense roll .. so if you shoot the same target 4 times, he gets 0/-1/-2/-3 modifiers. Against weak goons, you might even down a lot of them per turn, but remember the -2 modifier per additional target ... Could even work with two SMG, if enough recoil is compensated... |
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Dec 23 2005, 09:26 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
Has any noticed that no one who actually knows what they're doing IRL uses two guns? You never see SWAT team guys breaking into a house with two SMG's, etc. It's only in make believe land that it's effective. The best reason to carry two guns is to save time on reloading.
My point is, I think it's a good thing that they basically made two gun fighting useless. |
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Dec 23 2005, 09:34 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 15-December 05 Member No.: 8,075 |
But what about two blade fighting (say a mono-katana and a mono-knife). As someone who has done SCA fencing and authorized in sword and dagger two handed melee fighting is not as dificult as most RPG systems make it sound (once you're trained anyway). |
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Dec 23 2005, 09:39 PM
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#15
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Maybe do the same as for guns. This could make it much more dangerous to use monowhips, since there is a higher chance of glitching.
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Dec 23 2005, 09:49 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
I was a combat fencer myself and IMO the time spent on 2-weapon fencing is often better spent on improving single-blade combat. The only exception to that is when fighting multiple opponents where your attention is already split. Even in a fair fight (say 2 on 2), the ability to simultaneously threaten both foes or defend against them does change the odds. I'd say the best you can do is either a) split dice pools and evaluate each weapon, trading success with one for increased odds of success with both or b) allow it to provide a bonus to parrying. |
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Dec 23 2005, 10:54 PM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
I dont mind splitting dice pools, I just wish it was splitting pools after all the mods and letting things like smartgun links work. As is it feels weaker than just using one gun, and this is after spending points on ambidexterity to make it a feasible option. If your going to spend points it should at the very least be an equal option.
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Dec 23 2005, 10:56 PM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
2 points 1. Most those guys like the swat teams haven't speant 5 points on ambidexterity 2. I suspect most games aren't trying to model reality, but more of an aciton movie reality. |
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Dec 23 2005, 11:00 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
But, it is feasible - at least against foes that aren't full body armored Trolls.
Or did i miss something (look at my previous post above) ? |
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Dec 23 2005, 11:18 PM
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#20
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
SR is NOT in any way modeled on reality. Except in the rare case that it would allow us to make characters stronger.
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Dec 23 2005, 11:24 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441 |
Part of the problem is that the game very poorly models reach because it assumes that reach is always an advantage. Sometimes it's a marked disadvantage. Imagine trying to use a polearm on someone grappling you. The guy grappling has a big advantage at that point. IMO, there really should be a "close" maneuver available which ends up inverting reach bonuses (+2=-2, for example). Wielding two weapons with different reaches could address this (sword+dagger, for example); you end up using the more favorable of the reach bonuses, basically.
Another point is the fact that you can parry with one weapon while engaging with the other. I would argue that an individual wielding two weapons should get at least part of the full-defense parry bonus without actually having to commit to full defense. (Personally, I revile the shield-as-armor behavior (when in melee). In melee, it's a parrying device, not armor. In melee, it should add dice to your parry action, not your armor). |
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Dec 23 2005, 11:45 PM
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#22
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
I played a game that had rules like that. I can't remember the name of the game but basically if you had a reach 3 weapon and your opponent had a reach 1 weapon at the start of the fight you were at +2 to hit he was at -2 to hit, if your oponent scored a hit on you he got inside your reach and the pnealties were reversed. While it made more sense it just became a pain in the ass with all the constant modifier changes and we just dropped reach as a rule. |
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Dec 23 2005, 11:49 PM
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#23
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
no i agree its feasible, I just find it to be a slightly weaker option in most cases. I think if its something you spend points on(ambidex) then it should be an equal option not slightly weaker. |
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Dec 24 2005, 12:08 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
This is the point where we should crunch some numbers :D .
I probably will, after christmas... this year i am the host (for the first time) of the family christmas event (and our christmas is from the 24th to the 26th ...). |
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Dec 24 2005, 01:36 AM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
I'll not that gyroharnesses no longer inflict penalties in melee.
How do you know that the SWAT teams don't duel weild SMGs? If memory serves, the main reasons to avoid doing so is because you handle recoil poorly, and because you have difficulty lining up the sights properly. The former is solved with a gyroharness, the latter with Smartlinks. |
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