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> Ghouls and Body Heat, A Question About The Setting
Chall
post Dec 23 2005, 03:28 PM
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Hi.

I'm new here so please forgive me if I'm asking questions that have already been answered.

Do Ghouls have body heat? The reason why I ask is because I'm sending the PCs up against them in the pitch dark. (They're blind so what do they care). I specifically need to know how well they'd show up in Thermographic vision.

If they keep room temperature it could be very very interesting.

If they are invisible to Thermographic vision (or nearly so) would the PC's only option be using flashlights? Or is there any other tech that can get around the whole lack of light thing?

Chall
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Azralon
post Dec 23 2005, 03:34 PM
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Ghouls in Shadowrun are not undead. They're living beings infected with a magical virus. They eat and -- presumably -- perform all other metabolic functions, so odds are they give off body heat.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 23 2005, 05:49 PM
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Indeed, they presumably run pretty hot, as they are in some places listed as eating about 4000 Calories a day and they are still distinguished for being creepily thin for their height.

-Frank
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Grinder
post Dec 23 2005, 07:26 PM
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Do you have a page reference for this?
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 23 2005, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (Grinder)
Do you have a page reference for this?


QUOTE (SR2 @ p. 225)
Ghouls commonly stand 1.7 meters tall and weigh 78 kilograms.


QUOTE (Revised Shadorun Companion @ p. 32)
They must consume approximately 1 percent of their body weight in metahuman flesh per week to maintain their health and get needed nutrition, but the bulk of a ghoul's diet may be any other kind of raw flesh.


Considering that 780 grams of human flesh is well over 2000 Calories cooked, and ghouls are eating it raw, then yeah. That's a lot of calories for a guy I outmass by 25%.

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Grinder
post Dec 23 2005, 10:04 PM
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But the average ghoul eats 780 grams in one week or did i get it wrong? So no big deal, consuming 4,000 calories in one week.
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Grinder
post Dec 23 2005, 10:04 PM
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Yeah, i got it wrong. They probably eat more than just 780 grams per week. S***.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 23 2005, 10:05 PM
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No. It's 780 grams in a day, once per week.

-Frank
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PBTHHHHT
post Dec 23 2005, 10:08 PM
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780 grams is 2.08 lbs of meat for those of y'all who are wondering and 78 kilograms means the guy weighs 208 lbs.

Frank, read again what you posted... that's per week.
"1 percent of their body weight in metahuman flesh per week "
That's only 2.08 pounds of meat a week, I'm sure you can do more than that. Plus, have you seen what a cyclist in the Tour de France eats per day?

Some examples of caloric intakes:
http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/calories.html

The average daily intake that's recommended is:
"UK Department of Health Estimated Average Requirements (EAR) are a daily calorie intake of 1940 calories per day for women and 2550 for men."
http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/logou...orie_intake.htm

edit: I was too slow, but I was having fun pulling up links and info. hehe.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 23 2005, 10:16 PM
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Actually, the guy weighs 172 pounds.

-Frank
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Grinder
post Dec 23 2005, 10:24 PM
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So can we assume Ghoul Average eats ~750 grams metahuman meat per week and the rest of his diet is a "normal" amount of meat?
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nezumi
post Dec 23 2005, 10:27 PM
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Reading through the background stuff, it does sound like they require a lot of meat-based foods. I've never heard of a ghoul that can survive mostly on soy (even with it's one weekly human steak). But I also don't think ghouls necessarily manage to get all of those calories. They're basically predators, from what's given, and predators as a general rule have pretty inefficient digestive tracks.

But that's just pure speculation on my part :)
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Grinder
post Dec 23 2005, 10:38 PM
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We had a longer thread here not long ago.

edit: This may help: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...10735&hl=ghouls

This post has been edited by Grinder: Dec 23 2005, 10:39 PM
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emo samurai
post Dec 23 2005, 11:29 PM
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Can they eat human collagen gotten from liposuction operations? If they could, that would totally destroy the whole problem of having to eat people.
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PBTHHHHT
post Dec 23 2005, 11:32 PM
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Ugh, I must have used the wrong pound type on my conversion program. I redid it by hand, 2.2 lb per kg, you're right, it should be 172. Hmmm... I used the troy instead of the other one, that probably made the difference.

Still, that means only 1.71 lb of meat.
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PBTHHHHT
post Dec 23 2005, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai @ Dec 23 2005, 06:29 PM)
Can they eat human collagen gotten from liposuction operations? If they could, that would totally destroy the whole problem of having to eat people.

To keep their slim look, they have to stick with the low fat diet, so no collagen. ;-)

edit: And they probably don't do atkins, it's terrible for them in the long run, they health conscious! :P
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emo samurai
post Dec 24 2005, 01:06 AM
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So... they COULD eat collagen and not piss people off, except for the chop shop that sells the stuff for lip implants?
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 24 2005, 06:06 AM
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Yes, there are lots of ways to get human flesh for eating without killing or corpse camping anyone to get it.

But... why would you want to?

-Frank
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Gothic Rose
post Dec 24 2005, 04:28 PM
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Fat cells aren't flesh. So, I don't think they'd be able to just eat the collagen.

Ghouls have to eat that much METAHUMAN flesh or they get sick. They still need to eat other meat. Ghouls are incapable of digesting cooked foods, or most other things, period. They're strictly carnivores (although in our game, my ghoul is allowed to drink Alcohol) which makes it kinda sucky for the food costs. They have to have real meat. Of course, that said, they can always just drag the ganger that attacked them back home.

My ghoul character's pads always had a full walk in meat-locker. Always.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 24 2005, 05:51 PM
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I really hate whipping out dictionary references in internet discussions, but I can't let that one stand:

QUOTE (The frickin dictionary)

Flesh
n.
  1.
        1. The soft tissue of the body of a vertebrate, covering the bones and consisting mainly of skeletal muscle and fat.


There's a reason the old statement is "flesh and bones", not "flesh, bones, and adipose tissue." Bones aren't flesh, but all the the soft tissue is. Muscles, organs, fat deposits. That's one of the weird things about the mass limitation. There's 58 kilos of flesh on a human, but some of it is 2000 Calories a kilo, some of it is 4000 Calories a kilo, and some of it is nearly 9000 Calories a kilo.

-Frank
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Chall
post Dec 24 2005, 07:56 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Got lots of ideas now. :)

In retrospect its probably cooler for the chracters not to walk around with flashlights.
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emo samurai
post Dec 24 2005, 08:46 PM
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So... ghouls can live peacefully with humans, as long as there are plenty of liposuction clinics nearby?
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Darkness
post Dec 25 2005, 12:15 AM
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Well. On a thought, would you, as flesh eater, only eat the fat of a mmmh cow?

Would then, metahuman fat suffice for ghoul?

It might sustain him, yes. But the taste... come on. The ghoul doesn't just want to slurp the blubber from a tube or plastic bag, stemming from some obscure liposuction clinic.
He want's to bite and taste the real deal. The tender, juicy and "well hung" meat. The muscle. The tissue.
Yum!
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emo samurai
post Dec 25 2005, 12:46 AM
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QUOTE
The tender, juicy and "well hung" meat. The muscle. The tissue.


The inevitable shotgun blast to the face.
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Darkness
post Dec 25 2005, 03:05 AM
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If their target has a shotgun that is.
Normaly they will naturally tend to eat the dead. Up until that point in time, when there is no more carrion to be found.
As the predators that they partly are (they are part scavenger too), they will inevitably prey on the weak first.
The homeless, the children, the sick. Everything weaker than them, which is intruding on their hunting grounds, or just living nearby.
And they are hunting in packs, probably even setting up traps.
They will avoid anything not worth the trouble. Unless, of course, they hunger for flesh, because no easy prey has been caught for some time. Then they will attack the armed, and the stronger specimens of their prey.

Of course that is only for the more animalistic ghouls. As previous sourcebooks, and the 3rd ed. rules have stated some of them remain nearly their old self. And AFAIK, and i haven't read Loose Alliances yet, there is at least one ghoul (or ghoul-influenced) organisation out there, buying the dead from those who don't need them anymore, or don't want them.

But then again. If ones spouse died in a gang shooting, just because he or she was at the wrong place at the wrong time - would one rather see him or her properly even if it is poorly buried or cremated, than live in the knowledge that those at the morgue sold the body to them and that it has been eaten?

Their need for metahuman flesh will inevitably bring metahuman haters against them.

Even if they only need bodyfat from the clinics to be satisfied. They are still consuming it. They are the embodiment of every cannibalistic myth ever to be heard of.
They will still be hunted. Because people will fear, that those things will get a taste for the human, and change their diet, from body fat, to something more "substantial".

Unless Big D's Will regarding a substitute for metahuman flesh for the ghouls isn't fullfilled, no normal and unstrained co-existence will be possible.
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