 vehicle stats screwed up ? |
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 Jan 2 2006, 01:46 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586  |
i just realized that the tiltwing in sr4 has a max speed of 120m/turn that got be a typo, even the autogyro is faster...
and what about these strange acceleration rules, does anybody know how these really work? |
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Jan 2 2006, 07:39 AM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 11-December 05 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Member No.: 8,061 |
I agree that 120m/turn doesn't make sense. That's only 144kph!!!
Wouldn't be the first time the SR staff have got vehicle stats way wrong - I don't think any of them have ever ridden a motorcycle for one. My 650cc bike can out accelerate most production sports cars and it has only 1/3 of the horsepower of a real racing bike. Take a look at the bike accel stats - the same or worse than a car's. But... back to the main point. How the acceleration rules work is not that clear. It says that the numbers are (walking speed)/(running speed) - I have no clue what that means. What I've done is said the if I driver wants to accelerate make a vehicle test and increase speed by the "running speed" + 5m/turn per hit on the vehicle test. |
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Jan 2 2006, 01:45 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
The "Acceleration" stat isn't used for acceleration anymore (until we see more advanced rules, if any). The values are just used for Tactical Combat (p. 160), which is used if Characters are involved, so that you know when a car is "walking" or running, for the purpose of modifier determination, and how fast it is. The Speed value doedn't matter anymore, since even the Chase Combat (p. 160) rules doesn't take it into account. It's just used to determine the timespan it takes, to fly from place A to B. |
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Jan 3 2006, 03:04 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
i know that, but still.... speed stats are nonsense! they have to be changed.... about the acceleration...: a t-bird approaches a battle scene at full speed (1000m/turn) to attack a group of goons on the ground, and suddenly he only moves with 250 m/turn... what kind of nonsense is that supposed to be? and why walkin and running speed? i either do a full acceleration or i do it a little bit slower, so one max acceleration stat would be more than sufficient. |
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Jan 3 2006, 03:55 AM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i expect the walking and running speeds are to reflect the penalties etc from movement.
for example, there are penalties for shooting while running. i would expect those penalties to apply when travelling at "running speed" in a vehicle. |
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Jan 3 2006, 09:55 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
Well i want to see a t-bird circling and firing on a group of goons in a hilly environment at 1000m/turn. :D They hear it from a great distance and will seek cover. The t-bird will have to slow down so it coul bring its weapon to better use, while circling the targets. Those 1000m/ turn are nothing more than the travelling speed for the t-bird, while the "acceleration" values are the "combat speeds". |
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Jan 3 2006, 05:00 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
well that might be your interpretation, but ground fighter jets are still very very effective, allthough everybody has so much time to seek cover.... Why should a t-bird circle over the target area... approach with speed near the sound barrier, attack, disappear.... just like a fighterjet does... |
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Jan 3 2006, 07:45 PM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Why? Because a T-Bird's closest analogue to contemporary military hardware isn't a fighterjet, but a tank busting attack helicopter.
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Jan 3 2006, 08:43 PM
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#9
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Think the basterd off spring of a Harrier and an A10 Warthog. That my friends is a T-Bird. Ugly, armed, and rather loud.
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Jan 3 2006, 09:16 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
i would say the t-bird is right in the middle of it, and yes it could circle over the scene if outfitted with turrets, but could also attack like a jetfighter if it uses fixed mounts... still, in my opinion the vehicle rules and some of the stats are simply nonsense..... |
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Jan 3 2006, 09:34 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
My interpretation was that the combat speeds also took into account dodging of debris and obstacles, turning corners and such.
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Jan 4 2006, 06:43 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 11-December 05 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Member No.: 8,061 |
So let me see if I get this right, I have a example of how the rules work.
Player A has been fighting with a Troll and has been loosing badly. Player A decides to jump on his Harley Scorpion (accel 15/30) and take off. Player A: I accelerate away from the Troll GM: The Troll runs after you and keeps shooting Player A: No problem I'll loose him GM: Actually the Troll runs faster than you can ride on your Harley (Troll's running speed is 35) Player A: What? I try to out run him GM: OK roll your Car skill Player A: I got 2 hits GM: OK you're going 40 m/cbt Turn, the Troll is keeping up (He rolled 3 hits on a running test). Player A: This is insane... You're an A^&hole I'm outta here GM: But that's what the rules say. Is this right, or have I completely missed something in the rules. |
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Jan 4 2006, 07:58 AM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
My interpretation of a T-bird is that of fusion between Ah-64 Apache and an A-1 Abrahams tank. Imagine a flying Ambrahams with a crapload of ordinance at it’s disposal.
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Jan 4 2006, 08:04 AM
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#14
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
That's rather close to how they're described in the canon sources. |
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Jan 4 2006, 08:09 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 30-December 05 Member No.: 8,114 |
The vehicles stats are acceleration rates. Acceleration is a change in speed, not an absolute speed and that's the way I use it. Not exactly sure why there is a walking/running acceleration rate, I image the more advanced rules will clear that up. In your example, after the first turn the bike is travelling at 30m/turn. On the second turn after rolling 2 hits the bike accelerates by a further 40m/turn and is now travelling at 70m/turn. This acceleration can keep on happening until the bike reaches it's maximum safe speed of 120m/turn (140kph). Lets see the troll keep up now. The bike can go faster as per page 159: Speed is the reasonable high-end maximum velocity of the vehicle. Drivers can accelerate past this, but start suffering real difficulties in trying to get their vehicle to go faster and still maintain control. The gamemaster should apply modifiers as she feels appropriate. Hope that helps :) |
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Jan 4 2006, 01:19 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
Well, not exactly.
But nowhere it says, that your movement rates drop after that, until you break of course. If player a gains another 2 successes on his vehicle test, he will go to a speed of 50m/cbt and the Troll will have a hard time getting him, as he gets his Sprinting boost only while he is using a complex action for sprinting. The Troll will be faster in the beginning, but the bike will outrun him. |
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Jan 4 2006, 01:37 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 30-December 05 Member No.: 8,114 |
Yeah, now I see the problem. When I read 'Acceleration rating' I automatically assumed that these figures were actually acceleration values, ie, meters per turn per turn. But by re-reading the text it does seem to allude to that the values are really 'Speed ratings' :(. In my games I will continue to use them as acceleration rates as it makes more sense to me. |
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Jan 4 2006, 01:42 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
i am with u wizard....
But i have to insist that the some of the speed values have to be changed... Errata 1.4.... |
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Jan 4 2006, 11:56 PM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 11-December 05 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Member No.: 8,061 |
Well this is my plan.
The tactical combat rules work well enough for a vehicle that is actively taking part in combat. By that I mean that it or its passengers are either taking deliberate offence action or are otherwise trying to take part in a tactical combat scenario. I will use the walking/running rate as is and will allow the driver to make a test to increase speed as in the book. I would allow the vehicle to move about the combat scene just a walking person would (i.e. stop, start, turn, etc) - with some limitations (no you can't ride your motorcycle up the ladder). This means that more skilled driver can go faster while attacking. If a vehicle isn't participating in the combat and is taking some other action such as fleeing or stopping, the tactical combat rules fall apart. For accelerating, I'm going to try this. Driver makes a driving test and adds 5*hits to the walking speed. This is the speed increase for the vehicle for that combat round. The maximum speed increase is equal to the running speed. Beter drivers can speed up faster (to a limit) and get away from Combat. For deceleration I'll probably use running speed + 5*hits as the speed change. So here my example with new rules Player A: I get 2 hits on my driving test GM: OK, your going 25 m/turn, the Troll is keeping up. Next round.... Player A: I still want to speed up. This time I get 3 hits. GM: Ok now you're going 55 m/turn. Bye Bye Mr. Troll Sounds not so bad, eh? The only other change I'd make is to vary the 5*hits multiplier based on the vehicle type. Skill should still make a difference for faster vehicle types. Ground vehicles get the 5*, slower aircraft get 10* and high speed (supersonic or near) aircraft get 25*. |
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