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> armor types
Straight Razor
post Jan 15 2006, 02:52 AM
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ok... i feel like a dunce, but i can't find the rules for different aromr types.
normal B/I i understand. What changes when it is hardened, vehicle, or N type?
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 15 2006, 03:06 AM
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Hardened means that if the Power of an attack would be reduced to 0 or below, the attack does no damage. Vehicle armor is hardened armor. Naval armor is at the naval damage scale.

~J
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Straight Razor
post Jan 15 2006, 03:24 AM
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so if my powre 5 hits a hardened 6. it just bounces off.
but if my power 9 hits hardened 6? soke 3 as normal
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toturi
post Jan 15 2006, 03:28 AM
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Normal:

Power 5 against arm 5(or more): Soak TN 2
Power 6 against arm 3: Soak TN 3

Hardened:

Power 5 against arm 5(or more): Nada, zero, zilch.
Power 6 against arm 3: Soak TN 3(just like normal)
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TheNarrator
post Jan 15 2006, 09:35 AM
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Also:

Weapon of power 6, three round burst for total power 9.

Armor 7: Soak damage at TN 2.
Hardened Armor 7: Does nothing.

Hardened armor means that if the power of the attack (before modifying for automatic fire) isn't more than the armor, it bounces off like a hail of machine gun fire bouncing harmlessly off the side of a tank.

Armor-piercing ammunition (APDS and AV) halves armor, be it worn by humans, mounted on vehicles or created by the Armor spell.

Vehicle armor is hardened. Also, the power of a weapon is halved and the damage level is reduced by one against vehicles. (Whether they have armor or not.) Anti-Vehicle (AV) ammo and weapons aren't reduced in that manner.

Naval damage codes and armor were introduced in Rigger 3. They're... big. It's a whole other scale designed for battleships, and it's way outside the purview of most Shadowrun games. Light Naval does 15 boxes of damage and double power against normal vehicles and people, if I recall. Moderate Naval does 21 and triple power, Serious Naval 28 and quadruple power, and Deadly Naval damage is 36 boxes and the power gets multiplied by five. So, basically, that's how you'd kill a dragon. Pretty much every weapon I've ever seen with Naval damage has no availability, meaning you can't buy it on the street. Period. So don't worry overly much about it unless you're planning a military campaign.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 15 2006, 09:40 AM
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For reference, the lightest (mass-wise) Naval damage weapon in R3 is the Xicohtencatl, weighing in at 135 kilos and 135,000. It deals 6LN, and possession is punishable by a 10,000 fine and six months in prison. Use gets you eight years hard time.

~J
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TheNarrator
post Jan 15 2006, 10:10 AM
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So, that'd be 12 Deadly + 5 boxes Overflow against normal people, if I'm remembering correctly. And it's anti-vehiclular, so your armor is halved. :cyber: But hey, 10 successes on the damage resistance test would let you soak that, so it's not entirely hopeless. (Two successes stages LN down to D. Just think of Naval damage as the fifth through eighth damage levels.)

And with a Street Index and Availability of "-", it's impossible for a PC to obtain except by GM fiat. They're not sold on the street. Ever. Battleship cannon tend to not "fall off the back of the truck" since the military probably makes them in-house.

Actually, there is a smaller Naval weapon: some of the Mortar/Howitzer shells in SOTA '63. A Heavy Mortar can be purchased, at :nuyen: 10,000 times 3 Street Index and Availability 15. The ICM (Improved Conventional Munitions) shells for it do 4LN and cost :nuyen: 750 each, Street Index 5, Availability 24. So I guess there is an icicle's chance in hell of a PC having a Naval weapon after all, and doing 15 boxes of damage with a power of 8. But it's a pretty slim chance.

The most powerful weapon I've ever seen actually given stats is the Vaporizer Heavy Railgun, at 15MN and :nuyen: 1,000,000. Battleships and Main Battle Tanks can have this. I'm assuming that a nuke, should one ever have to be given stats, would have DN damage level with a power based on the yield, but I'm hoping I won't have to find out anytime soon.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 15 2006, 10:49 AM
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QUOTE (TheNarrator @ Jan 15 2006, 05:10 AM)
The most powerful weapon I've ever seen actually given stats is the Vaporizer Heavy Railgun, at 15MN and :nuyen:1,000,000.

The Sea Saber missile, at 750,000 a pop (not counting launch facilities), does 24DN. Each missile is a Body 4 vehicle (nominal weight 1.5 tonnes) with a range of 250 kilometers.

~J
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jan 15 2006, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (TheNarrator)
I'm assuming that a nuke, should one ever have to be given stats, would have DN damage level with a power based on the yield, but I'm hoping I won't have to find out anytime soon.

The yield (equivalent TNT mass for energy output) could be simply used according to the standard detonation rules. Since about 15% of a standard fission warheads energy goes towards nuclear radiation, that means the pressure and heat output of a 100kt warhead (warheads usually range from a few dozen kt to 1Mt, up to 20Mt with singular warhead ICBMs) is about equal to 85 thousand metric tonnes (85 million kg) of TNT. Assuming TNT = Commercial Explosives (3D/kg, -1/meter) you get:
3 x 85,000,000^0.5 = 27,659
Using the optional rule where you roll (Power/2) dice vs. 4 and every two successes stages the Damage Level up by one, you'd get an average of 3,457 additional boxes of damage. So...
27,659 Deadly + 3,457 Over-Damage, -3/meter.
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TheNarrator
post Jan 15 2006, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
The Sea Saber missile, at 750,000 a pop (not counting launch facilities), does 24DN. Each missile is a Body 4 vehicle (nominal weight 1.5 tonnes) with a range of 250 kilometers.

I guess I must have missed that. Which book is it in?

I guess it would be roughly the SR equivalent of a Tomahawk cruise missile. Only, in SR, a rigger could be driving them. The damage against normal vehicles and people: 120 Deadly + 26 boxes Over-Damage... and that's before rolling half the power for extra boxes.


QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
The yield (equivalent TNT mass for energy output) could be simply used according to the standard detonation rules. Since about 15% of a standard fission warheads energy goes towards nuclear radiation, that means the pressure and heat output of a 100kt warhead (warheads usually range from a few dozen kt to 1Mt, up to 20Mt with singular warhead ICBMs) is about equal to 85 thousand metric tonnes (85 million kg) of TNT. Assuming TNT = Commercial Explosives (3D/kg, -1/meter) you get:
3 x 85,000,000^0.5 = 27,659
Using the optional rule where you roll (Power/2) dice vs. 4 and every two successes stages the Damage Level up by one, you'd get an average of 3,457 additional boxes of damage. So...
27,659 Deadly + 3,457 Over-Damage, -3/meter.


For some reason it hadn't occurred to me to just stat up the blast of the apropriate number of tonnes of TNT. I guess the obvious can slip by at 2:00 in the morning. :D

Nicely done. Your math and reasoning is solid, Austere. And for the record, that would be about equivalent to 5,532 DN. Ouch. Plus, there'd probably be some high-Power fire damage at Ground Zero... the millions of degrees Kelvin that occur around nuclear reactions tend to ruin one's day.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 15 2006, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (TheNarrator)
I guess I must have missed that. Which book is it in?

Rigger 3, but a few pages past the main weapons table.

~J
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