 Yet another Ally Spirit Question - Init?, Idiotic Ally Spirit Rules Strike Again? |
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 Jan 16 2006, 07:19 PM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734  |
I did a search here, the FAQ (out of desperation) and, of course, both MitS and SR3. As far as I can tell, there are no rules defining the Init of Ally Spirits.
If someone's book-fu is better than mine, can you please help? If this has come up before, what was the consensus of a solution? Spirits in general have a range from F+8+D6 to F+12+D6, with astral being F+20+D6. Ally spirits in astral should definately be F+20+D6, but what in the physical world? Any help appreciated. |
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Jan 16 2006, 07:20 PM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 22-May 05 Member No.: 7,406 |
If I recall correctly, spirits of all type calculate their initiative as normal, and then add a +10 bonus for manifesting.
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Jan 16 2006, 07:37 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
F + 10 + D6 Physical
F + 20 + D6 Astral |
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Jan 16 2006, 07:39 PM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
Ah, thanks.
Here's a second question - The attack code has been debated here before - the consensus for attack code for an ally spirit manifested as a human was to use the human attack code of (Str) M Stun. This seems reasonable to me...except would you use this reasoning when doing combat in the astral? If so, why, if not, what would you use instead? |
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Jan 16 2006, 07:49 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
Damn, no books with me. IIRC Str has no affect in Astral, the only attribute that matters in Astral Combat is the Force. I think it's (F)M damage, and the Spirit can choose to deal either Stun or Physical damage, depending on it's mood I guess...
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Jan 16 2006, 07:59 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
AH! Thanks, that gave me the lead I needed - It's on pg. 176 in SR3.
It is, indeed, (Force) M, with the spirit's choice of Phyiscal or Stun. |
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Jan 16 2006, 08:16 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
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Jan 16 2006, 08:16 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Actually.. I think it's technically Charisma (M) on astral..
Charisma always being force for every spirit save Allies, where it's equal to the conjuror's at time of creation. And as for initiative, it's (quickness + intelligence)/2 + 10 + 1d6 when manifest, and intelligence + 20 + 1d6 when astral. |
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Jan 16 2006, 08:19 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
Buzzkill. My calculator has it right though I'm pretty sure. |
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Jan 16 2006, 09:00 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
No, it's just Quickness+10+1d6. |
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Jan 16 2006, 09:06 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Initiative is reaction, which is quickness + intelligence divided by 2....
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Jan 16 2006, 09:37 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Except for spirits- seriously, their initiative scores are Force + (10+Quickness modifier) +1d6 when printed in the books, and since they have Quickness scores of Force+modifier...
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Jan 16 2006, 10:36 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
... except for Ally Spirits. Dawnshadow is right: (QCK+INT)/2 = REA
INIT = REA + 1D6 (with a bonus of 10 Physical and 20 Astral) |
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Jan 17 2006, 12:50 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Let's check in SR3... Elementals: Air: quickness F+3, Intelligence F, reaction F+2.. init is F+2 + 10 + 1d6 Earth: quickness F-2, Intelligence F, reaction F-2.. init is F-2 + 10 + 1d6 Fire: quickness F+2, Intelligence F, reaction F+1.. init is F+1 + 10 + 1d6 Water: quickness F, Intelligence F, reaction F+1.. init is F+1 + 10 + 1d6 Spirits: Man: quickness F+2, Intelligence F, reaction F+1.. init is F+1 + 10 + 1d6 Land: quickness F-2, Intelligence F, reaction F-2.. init is F-2 + 10 + 1d6 Sky: quickness F+3, Intelligence F, reaction F+2.. init is F+2 + 10 + 1d6 Waters: quickness F, Intelligence F, reaction F-1.. init is F-1 + 10 + 1d6 So, for nature spirits and elementals, it looks like the actual result is: Reaction + 1d6 + 10 And Reaction looks like it is (Quickness + Intelligence)/2, rounded up... with Earth elementals, and spirits of land and waters having a -1 penalty to reaction, and Water elementals having a +1 modifier. The only case that appears to be reaction equal to quickness instead of normal reaction calculations are earth elementals and spirits of the land. Every other case it is NOT accurate to say that it is the quickness which determines it. |
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Jan 18 2006, 08:39 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441 |
(This is sr3, right?)
sr3.265: "Initiative for spirits and dragons is determined in exactly the same way as normal character initiative. All spirts and dragons have a base Reaction and a number of initiative dice based on their reflexes.... see the spirit and dragon description for those statistics. Roll the initiative dice and add the result to the beings Reaction to determine its initiative total. ... Materialized spirits receive +10 to their initiative. Astrally-projecting entities add +20 to their initiative, and use the same initiative dice as they would when physical." So, as the book says, it's Reaction+Dice+10/20 depending on astral or physical manifestation. Based on the elemental/spirits stats, it looks like Reaction is not necessarily a derived attribute for spirits. Really, I see two reasonable options off the top of my head: one, declare that Reaction is a derived attribute for ally spirits, or two, declare that Reaction is a separate attribute that may/must be purchased. |
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Jan 18 2006, 10:38 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Okay, so I misremembered something rather than looking it up. Sue me.
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Jan 19 2006, 12:33 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
Uh, then how much will we be able to squeeze out of you? I've never dabbled in the creation of an Ally Spirit btu tonight i'll do it since i have a mage that has the extra Karma. |
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Jan 19 2006, 01:10 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
I'm afraid I may have to. You see, I believe I invented the GM style commonly known as Misremember Rather Than Looking It Up, and I can't have other people going around making a mockery of it now can I? |
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Jan 19 2006, 06:44 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 7-September 05 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 7,706 |
ooooh burn!!! So we're all in agreement that an Ally's inititative is (Q+I)/2 + 1d6 +10/+20(Meat world/Astral plane)? |
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