More Overpowered Spells? Options

[Phoenix (A-Team)]

That's definitely a much more comforting thought. I am still unclear as to whether this goo is opaque, as glue typically is, or if it is transparent. Or somewhere in between perhaps.

That would be a huge determining factor as to whether one could even know what 'wares are in you, never mind the difficulty of plucking them out without damaging them.

[BishopMcQ]

Simple way around it would be to create a specialized combat spell that only damages the goo created by Turn To Goo. (This of course would require spell creation rules, but those could be house-ruled until Street Magic comes out...) Then you slag the goo and the cyberware is perfectly undamaged as the goo fries off in specially twisted bits of mana.

This of course removes the game balance aspects of the initial spell

[Phoenix (A-Team)]

A sound plan with pretty results for the 'caster.

Only hole in it that I can think of is the idea that cyberware is bought with essence. This being true (based in 3rd edition rules, but unknown if it carries over to 4th) means that the 'ware it is part of you. As it is part of you, it cannot be targeted, just as a 'caster can't target a manabolt at your right hand. Or so it use to be...

[RunnerPaul]

Ah, but they're not targeting the cyber, they're targeting the goo.

[Aku]

but, since the cyber is part of you it should be turning to goo as well.

[Moon-Hawk]

[hyzmarca]

I think the cyberware immunity to Turn To Goo could b reconciled by comparing TTG to health spells rather than to manipulations.

Take the heal spell. If Mr. Monowhip cuts your organic right arm off then the heal spell can restore it with enough successes. If Mr. Monowhip cuts off your left cyberarm, you have to take it to a repair shop.

If someone throws hits you in the face with a baseball bat, cracking your eyesocket and detaching you retina the heal spell can fix you. If you hits you in the face with a baseball back, cracking your eye socket and destroying the lens of your cybereye, then magic can heal your skull but you have to take the cybereye to a repair shop.

Turn to Goo is classed as a manipulation, buts it is limit to living organic matter may mean that it is better to classify it as a health spell.

[Galmorez]

With petrify, it says it turns the target into calcium carbonate. A tub and a few gallons of strong vinegar, and you can just dissolve the cyberware out and let the dissolved victim run down the drain before "releasing" the spell. Ick.

Casters are quite powerful in SR4, but so are non-casters. A streetsam is typically going to have more initiative passes to dish out damage. A rigger (such as they are in this edition) can have enough remote drones as to be fairly safe from being turned to goo. It's very much a rock-paper-scissors type of setup. No matter how powerful the mage, there's always something to counter it. That's why most facilities in SR have a blend of security systems in place. It takes a team to beat a team...

[Brahm]

[hyzmarca]

This idea is why there must be a great demand for professional shadowplumbers.

"It seems that one of your pipes burst because someone stuffed a mutilated human into it."

[Lagomorph]

[hyzmarca]

Old Bones is lossing a lot of potential profit, too. Vital organs can go for a pretty penny on the black market and the rest can be sold by weight.

[blalien]

Mmm...people...

[Kyoto Kid]

[Azralon]

Seriously, if you want to farm for cyberware, it's much more efficient to just knock over a shadowclinic. :)

[Moon-Hawk]

Plus, if turn to goo has established that it is possible to affect cyberware and a person seperately, it'd probably be more efficient to just design a spell that sucks all the cyber out of a person. Maybe a Healing spell: Reject Cyberware. Permanent spell, so it has to be sustained a long time to actually suck it out, so it's basically useless in combat.

[FrankTrollman]

I wouldn't call such a spell useless at all. A permanent spell is simply sustained for many rounds before its permanency matters. It still takes effect right away.

Such a line of inquiry is dangerous at best to the Shadowrun game.

-Frank

[BishopMcQ]

Reject Cyberware wouldn't necessarily forcefully eject the cyberware from the system. As a health spell it would most likely cause the body to go into shock as the antibodies attempt to reject the new organs or grafts. Perhaps short term modifiers, with long term game effects unless the victim received medical attention to fight off the allergic reaction.

Now a telekinetic manipulation that tore the cyberware out of a victim's body would be very graphic...

[Aku]

[mdynna]

My take on the Turn to Goo spell was not that it was offensive, but sort of "transportational" in nature. The rules' mention of the Goo's barrier rating leads me to believe that you can't just "reach in" and snatch out Cyberware. The Goo is solid enough that to extract the Cyberware you would have to do enough damage to the Goo that it would kill the person as much as cutting the 'ware out of them in the first place would have.

The use of Turn to Goo that I see is being able to turn oneself to Goo and thus fit through small cracks/spaces not possible when in (meta)human form. In that case, the note about not turning 'ware to Goo prevents the mage from Gooifying the 'Sammie and having him squeeze into the Secret Chamber. You have to have someone with no 'ware do it.

[BishopMcQ]

So how would we write that one up? Single target per piece of cyber or AoE? Limit it to specific type of cyberware?

[Azralon]

[mdynna]

So then you have to cast it on another member of the party. The Adept, and "squeeze" them into the space you want. Then, when they're in, you drop the spell.

[Azralon]

Absolutely.

[Phoenix (A-Team)]

It's all in how one percieves a spell, as to whether it's defensive or offensive in nature. Definitely not a bad idea, using it to do such things... although I'm trying to imagine stuffing a gelatinous body with barrier rating Body + Net Hits under a locked door. I suppose that would be a GM call in the end.

In the end, organ legging is wrong my good Runners. And knocking over Shadowclinics is an even bigger no-no, as that drives availability of such 'wares through the roof... not to mention there'd be nobody to install the goods in you or your friends when the time comes for upgrades.

But in the end, I think it's proven that the simplest way is to put on the gasmasks and deploy the nerve-gas grenades. Sort out the bodies and run the MAD scanner over them all, then dispatch them and bring them to your most trusted Street Doc or Organ Legger contact.