Everyday Gear for Runners Item Poll

Everyday Gear for Runners Item Poll, Item 1, Floss

Should we include Dental Floss?
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Total Votes: 65
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FrankTrollman View Member Profile	Jan 18 2006, 08:09 PM Post #26
Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665	Real meat is expensive because nation states are no longer subsidizing land for pastures and ranching. Also because hellcows make ranching more dangerous and costly. Fresh fruit and vegetables are expensive because people live in much closer proximity and while the speed delivery infrastructure is there to be had, it simply doesn't care enough about the little guy to deliver artichokes and peaches to arcology wageslaves and sprawl denizens in a timely manner. Real preserved food is expensive for no good god damned reason except that th world is more dystopic and awful that way. -Frank

nezumi

Jan 18 2006, 08:12 PM

Post #27

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QUOTE (mintcar)

Soybeer? That´s were I draw the line. Why wouldn´t they still grow normal grains for beer and bread? Hell, they can make pretty good beer out of corn even if the malt is scarce, but soy?

sorry for being off topic

I don't know about soybeer, but soy vodka is actually pretty good.

Which, by the way, should definitely go on the 'gear everyone should have' list. It's probably cheaper by the gallon than mouthwash and just as effective.

Siege View Member Profile	Jan 18 2006, 08:28 PM Post #28
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916	The dwarves might be on to something - fresh devilrat with ketchup sounds pretty good. -Siege

mintcar View Member Profile	Jan 18 2006, 08:39 PM Post #29
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505	Even in the mega farms they have to grow more than one crop right? I guess with state of the art farming crop rotation may not be required though. I don´t see grain becoming more expensive than soy anyway. Today wheat is the cheapest crop to grow. And different grains can grow just about everywere on the planet too. You don´t see many soy bean fields in Sweden. I´m not an expert, but I think the most likely scenario for Shadowrun agriculture is that the mega farms rotate corn, wheat and soy beans (for north america. Otherwise whatever grows best in the climate) on their fields. <edit> Just read a few contradicting statements on the cost of growing soy. Seems it may be cheaper on account of making it´s own nitrogen, so that it doesn´t need as much fertilization or something. Still, the price difference would not explain why they would make beer and bread out of soy instead of grain. I'm supposing people will still like it better the way it's supposed to be, the earth likes it better when crops are rotated, and the cost and hassle of growing these geneticly mutated crops should be rather indistinguishable. It's things like coffee, meat and cheese that's made of soy in Shadowrun.

stevebugge View Member Profile	Jan 18 2006, 09:26 PM Post #30
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996	A large part of the cost of food in supermarkets isn't the food itself, but the cost of getting it to the market and operating the market. With the Balkanization of North America many of the Agricultural regions were spread among separate countries, with UCAS, CAS, and Sioux Nation gatting the vast bulk. Fuel prices have steadily risen, Tariffs and transit fees must be paid, and now all groceries must need additional security. All increase the cost of food. Addititonally Futures Speculation is probably an even more volatile and higher stakes market than it is today. Soy is a good crop because it's versatile, Rice, and Wheat would seem to be good bets too. As for Soy Beer, I've always assumed it was a cheap shot at mass produced American Lager.

mmu1

Jan 18 2006, 09:29 PM

Post #31

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QUOTE (Fix-it)

no. it's more of a supply and demand thing.

krill and soy-based foods = soo much cheaper than real food, so demand fell off, so farmers went out of jobs, bought up by corporate interests, developed, or turned into a corp megafarm.

either way, it ain't owned by farmers anymore. and if was close enough to the city, it becomes part of the sprawl.

By that logic, the corps should not be making cars any more, except those meant for the ultra-rich, because bicycles are so much cheaper, and demand for cars has disappeared.

Which wouldn't be impossible, if the income of the average employed UCAS SIN-holder (since the SIN-less and unemployed don't affect supply and demand much) dropped to 3rd-world levels... but clearly, that's not the case. There's a lot more poverty than in the real world, relatively speaking, but most people that work for a living still are able to afford cars - even if they're crappy Jackrabbits - as well as personal electronics, fast food, the occasional chic outfit, minor cosmetic surgery, and so on.

The idea that a population still able to spend so much money on luxury goods will be willing to start eating slabs of soy with artificial flavors added from the tap, because it's cheaper than real food, is pretty absurd.

Moon-Hawk

Jan 18 2006, 09:35 PM

Post #32

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QUOTE (mmu1)

The idea that a population still able to spend so much money on luxury goods will be willing to start eating slabs of soy with artificial flavors added from the tap, because it's cheaper than real food, is pretty absurd.

Um, have you eaten at a McDonald's lately? That stuff is utterly vile, but if you shape it like food and flavor it up, people will eat it.
I think you're vastly overestimating the good taste of the average citizen. People will elect to eat cheap crap over more expensive, but better food.
That's not to say that real food will disappear entirely. SR doesn't imply that, either. Just that lower class will eat mostly processed junk, middle class will have a mix, and even the upper class will have a little soy now and then.
I find that idea entirely too horrifyingly realistic.

Aku

Jan 18 2006, 09:51 PM

Post #33

Running, running, running

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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

QUOTE (mmu1 @ Jan 18 2006, 09:29 PM)

The idea that a population still able to spend so much money on luxury goods will be willing to start eating slabs of soy with artificial flavors added from the tap, because it's cheaper than real food, is pretty absurd.

Um, have you eaten at a McDonald's lately? That stuff is utterly vile, but if you shape it like food and flavor it up, people will eat it.
I think you're vastly overestimating the good taste of the average citizen. People will elect to eat cheap crap over more expensive, but better food.
That's not to say that real food will disappear entirely. SR doesn't imply that, either. Just that lower class will eat mostly processed junk, middle class will have a mix, and even the upper class will have a little soy now and then.
I find that idea entirely too horrifyingly realistic.

utterly vile, yes, but still "real" food, (afaik, it's not soy, yet) I personally have a severe phobia to soy foods. I like my meat, and i CAN tell the difference betwen, say boca, and a real burger.

stevebugge

Jan 18 2006, 09:57 PM

Post #34

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QUOTE (Aku)

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Jan 18 2006, 04:35 PM)

QUOTE (mmu1 @ Jan 18 2006, 09:29 PM)

The idea that a population still able to spend so much money on luxury goods will be willing to start eating slabs of soy with artificial flavors added from the tap, because it's cheaper than real food, is pretty absurd.

Um, have you eaten at a McDonald's lately? That stuff is utterly vile, but if you shape it like food and flavor it up, people will eat it.
I think you're vastly overestimating the good taste of the average citizen. People will elect to eat cheap crap over more expensive, but better food.
That's not to say that real food will disappear entirely. SR doesn't imply that, either. Just that lower class will eat mostly processed junk, middle class will have a mix, and even the upper class will have a little soy now and then.
I find that idea entirely too horrifyingly realistic.

utterly vile, yes, but still "real" food, (afaik, it's not soy, yet) I personally have a severe phobia to soy foods. I like my meat, and i CAN tell the difference betwen, say boca, and a real burger.

If you want to know for sure http://www.mcdonalds.com/app_controller.nu...ents.index.html

Kyoto Kid

Jan 18 2006, 10:00 PM

Post #35

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QUOTE (stevebugge)

A large part of the cost of food in supermarkets isn't the food itself, but the cost of getting it to the market and operating the market. With the Balkanization of North America many of the Agricultural regions were spread among separate countries, with UCAS, CAS, and Sioux Nation gatting the vast bulk. Fuel prices have steadily risen, Tariffs and transit fees must be paid, and now all groceries must need additional security. All increase the cost of food. Addititonally Futures Speculation is probably an even more volatile and higher stakes market than it is today. Soy is a good crop because it's versatile, Rice, and Wheat would seem to be good bets too. As for Soy Beer, I've always assumed it was a cheap shot at mass produced American Lager.

So if you're looking to make a bit o nuyen on the up & up, Soy, & Grain Futures is the way to go?

As for cheap suds, I prefer the down to earth taste of Spud & Spud Lite.

It's the Tubers...and a Whole lot More

Moon-Hawk View Member Profile	Jan 18 2006, 10:06 PM Post #36
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715	The word soy appears about 150 times on that McDonald's menu page.

mmu1

Jan 18 2006, 10:33 PM

Post #37

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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Jan 18 2006, 05:35 PM)

Um, have you eaten at a McDonald's lately? That stuff is utterly vile, but if you shape it like food and flavor it up, people will eat it.
I think you're vastly overestimating the good taste of the average citizen. People will elect to eat cheap crap over more expensive, but better food.
That's not to say that real food will disappear entirely. SR doesn't imply that, either. Just that lower class will eat mostly processed junk, middle class will have a mix, and even the upper class will have a little soy now and then.
I find that idea entirely too horrifyingly realistic.

Sure, McDonalds is a triumph of marketing over common sense. However, while it's crap, it's not cheap crap. It's actually relatively expensive, considering what you get for your buck, and very often bought by the people who have the least money to spend.

Which is why the idea that soy with artificial flavors beat out everything else by taking advantage of supply and demand and undercutting the competition by being so much cheaper is sort of ridiculous. If that was how things worked, the very poor in the US would eat rice and beans, but the reality of the matter is, even the homeless eat at McDonalds...

People will pay extra to get what they want (or think they want) - that's supply and demand, and the reason why people living in a consumer culture won't switch to krill wafers. (and neither will the corporations, because there's a lot less profit in krill wafers)

stevebugge

Jan 18 2006, 11:07 PM

Post #38

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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

QUOTE (stevebugge)

A large part of the cost of food in supermarkets isn't the food itself, but the cost of getting it to the market and operating the market. With the Balkanization of North America many of the Agricultural regions were spread among separate countries, with UCAS, CAS, and Sioux Nation gatting the vast bulk. Fuel prices have steadily risen, Tariffs and transit fees must be paid, and now all groceries must need additional security. All increase the cost of food. Addititonally Futures Speculation is probably an even more volatile and higher stakes market than it is today. Soy is a good crop because it's versatile, Rice, and Wheat would seem to be good bets too. As for Soy Beer, I've always assumed it was a cheap shot at mass produced American Lager.

So if you're looking to make a bit o nuyen on the up & up, Soy, & Grain Futures is the way to go?

As for cheap suds, I prefer the down to earth taste of Spud & Spud Lite.

It's the Tubers...and a Whole lot More

Or lose a lot of money. Commodity Futures are High Risk-High Reward.

Of course if you as a runner just did something that gets you some insider information..........(see Loose Alliances for more ideas)

I really should change my handle to the Chromed Broker or something

Foreigner View Member Profile	Jan 18 2006, 11:42 PM Post #39
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 586 Joined: 22-November 02 From: Gordonsville, Virginia, U.S.A. (or C.A.S.) Member No.: 3,630	I don't really know if this would work, but: In the Chuck Norris film Hero and the Terror (1988), Simon Moon ("The Terror" of the title, played by 6 foot, 6 inch, 250-pound heavyweight-boxer-turned-actor Jack O'Halloran [who also played "Non" in Superman (1978) and Superman 2 (1980)]) escaped from prison by cutting the bars on his cell window. He used a combination of dental floss, liquid hand soap, and crushed block rosin. If you want to get nasty, you could use floss impregnated with a mixture of white phosphorus and thermite, as was done in the 1979 TV-movie The Billion-Dollar Threat--just don't expose it to air until you're ready to use it. ;) --Foreigner

Mr.Platinum

Jan 19 2006, 12:24 AM

Post #40

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QUOTE (BookWyrm)

trip wire.

better pull the pin a little just to make sure the floss don't break.

Kyoto Kid

Jan 19 2006, 01:18 AM

Post #41

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QUOTE (stevebugge)

Or lose a lot of money. Commodity Futures are High Risk-High Reward.

Of course if you as a runner just did something that gets you some insider information..........(see Loose Alliances for more ideas)

I really should change my handle to the Chromed Broker or something

That's why you have a very special contact named "Mr Biggles" (...not an Austin Powers reference. Think Eddie Murphy and Dan Akyroid)

nt326 View Member Profile	Jan 19 2006, 02:19 AM Post #42
Target Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 5-May 05 From: in the warm blue glow of my computer monitor Member No.: 7,375	Just a quick note on the garotte idea, if you double, or say triple the floss over, it doubles or triples the strength. That quickly makes it a viable and legal garotte. And, less painful on you fingers.

Dog View Member Profile	Jan 19 2006, 04:02 PM Post #43
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025	I agree with the fishing line idea. Clearly a monofilament like dental floss can be useful in a pinch, but it seems to be a weak stand-in to be used when other, more appropriate materials are not available. I wouldn't bother to carry it when there are better options. Hey, how about picture wire? Or those little core strands in parachute cord?

stevebugge

Jan 19 2006, 04:09 PM

Post #44

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QUOTE (Dog)

I agree with the fishing line idea. Clearly a monofilament like dental floss can be useful in a pinch, but it seems to be a weak stand-in to be used when other, more appropriate materials are not available. I wouldn't bother to carry it when there are better options.

Hey, how about picture wire? Or those little core strands in parachute cord?

That's exactly what this project we're working on is about, the weak stand in's runners come up with on the fly, well at least that will be a big part of it.

Fix-it View Member Profile	Jan 19 2006, 05:14 PM Post #45
Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364	but dental floss is just silly... seriously. Piano wire or guitar strings, minimum. Fishing line (12 lb test at least) would come in handy, but not for strangling someone.

Ed_209a View Member Profile	Jan 19 2006, 07:11 PM Post #46
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128	Why one or the other? I have seen dental floss in containers the size of 3-4 stacked quarters. Guitar strings come already packed in sleeves about 3x3" Easy to put both in a longcoat pocket and forget until needed. 50 feet of parachute cord would be good too. If you are very careful you can even rappel with it. A bud of mine witnessed a ROTC instructor do it. Braiding 3 strands is a better idea though.

tisoz View Member Profile	Jan 19 2006, 07:53 PM Post #47
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,928 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920	I recall a prison escape where they used braided floss as ropes to escape. The prison started tracking how many rolls of dental floss was being purchased.

Fix-it

Jan 19 2006, 07:56 PM

Post #48

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QUOTE (tisoz)

I recall a prison escape where they used braided floss as ropes to escape. The prison started tracking how many rolls of dental floss was being purchased.

those were people with a LOT of time on thier hands though. this is for stuff in a pinch.

mmu1

Jan 19 2006, 07:59 PM

Post #49

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QUOTE (Ed_209a @ Jan 19 2006, 03:11 PM)

I have seen dental floss in containers the size of 3-4 stacked quarters. Guitar strings come already packed in sleeves about 3x3" Easy to put both in a longcoat pocket and forget until needed.

I apologize in advance, but... If you carry guitar string packs with you, people who don't know better might wonder why you're carrying around a bunch of troll-sized condoms. ;)

PBTHHHHT

Jan 19 2006, 08:03 PM

Post #50

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QUOTE (mmu1)

QUOTE (Ed_209a @ Jan 19 2006, 03:11 PM)

I have seen dental floss in containers the size of 3-4 stacked quarters. Guitar strings come already packed in sleeves about 3x3" Easy to put both in a longcoat pocket and forget until needed.

I apologize in advance, but... If you carry guitar string packs with you, people who don't know better might wonder why you're carrying around a bunch of troll-sized condoms. ;)

They'll wonder, but depending on the character, they'll try and put that thought out of their mind because it's too much info... :-P

While dental floss is good, I do feel it's too weak compared to fishing line and guitar strings. But, dental floss can be overlooked easier by security because of how innocent it is. Why do I have this dental floss? For use after I eat! Course, if you're also packing a pistol and other hardware, the dental floss/guitar string/fishing line/monowire is the least of your worries if you're stopped by security...

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