 Jackpoint, SR3 software suite |
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 Feb 14 2006, 04:51 PM
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#101
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599  |
weird...i'll look into that...i may've just typed the book.page into the wrong field in the database
well, as far as i know the optional rule to start the game as an initiate requires spell points to be spent in-place-of karma. so i guess no spell points, no initiation? someone correct me if there is another, official way to initiate at char. gen... |
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Feb 14 2006, 05:05 PM
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#102
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
thanks man! ok...i just loaded the program up to see this one for myself... the markers can erase the lines... any window you open over the map erases the lines... i have no work around for this yet, but... you can make custom maps with lines that won't erase...in the directory C:\Program Files\Jackpoint there is a file called gridMap.jpg you can open this jpeg in paint (or any other picture editor) and draw your map on top of the grid - then just save that map as it's own .jpg file (don't save the original, or you'll loose your blank grid) and load it into the grid map program. i will look into learning more about how windows actually renders those lines and see if i can fix that problem. |
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Feb 15 2006, 11:53 PM
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#103
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
Ok, well...if you look at the bugs/suggestions list in the first post, you can see what bugs i've fixed and suggestions i've taken and implemented.
unless a bunch more bugs come in before the end of the week, then i may release a beta2 version, since i'll have knocked out the entire list of bugs by then. the nice thing for you beta testers is that now you've already installed the .NET 2.0 stuff - so any new releases will be a snap for you to install. |
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Feb 16 2006, 12:03 AM
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#104
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Bitchin'!
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Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM
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#105
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
no no NO! please, please tell me that the character sheet you guys see in your web browser is complete...just simple looking! do you see everything, or just the character's name, race and edges and flaws? i had the XSL sheet fully worked out, it was just a really plain presentation...layout was something i was going to work on tonight. but now i can only find my very first draft with only a couple of test fields - and it looks like that could be the version you guys got. if it is, then i'm out a couple hours of work :-( please let me know if you have a full copy that shows all stats and tables! |
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Feb 16 2006, 03:08 AM
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#106
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Considering the enormous amount of gear and the limited display area, combined with the fact that it's in alphabetical order, I don't see that much wrong with how it's organized. The only different method I can think of that might alleviate some of the searching would be to implement separate boxes such as "Headware", "Bodyware", etc, which might take up too much room to be feasible. Another thing that might be similar would be to leave them sorted the way they are, but within each box put headings in bold, so that you can easily scroll to the type of 'ware you're looking for. Just a thought. I'm all for super-organized, but there's only so much you can do, you know?
This works. You can just buy the skill at say, 6, then specialize in something, then turn off spending, change the values to 5/7, and then turn spending back on.
Definitely understandable. It's a fairly minor thing anyway, considering that if I ask one of my players what the ranges are for their weapon I expect them to be able to look at their sheet and tell me. :)
Just going off memory here, but I'm fairly certain that since you can effectively purchase SPs with nuyen, you could feasibly initiate at chargen. More than anything though, you have to consider that what's consider "starting character" might be different in every game. For example, the game I'm running right now consists of characters that had appx. 45 karma and 140k nuyen (on top of what nuyen they purchased w/ BPs) at chargen. That said though, you've made it clear that the program only generates starting characters, by which you mean 120 BP, which is perfectly fine. It's going to totally kick ass when you develop the future version with the capability to spend karma, but until then we'll continue to drool over how badass the program is right now. :D (On that note, would it be that hard to add a karma use option? Considering that it's all handled via simple multipliers depending on what you're improving, it should be pretty easy to include a box in which you type the amount of karma that a character has to spend, and it gets spent after all BPs are gone. I also assume, however, that it would entail about a billion more lines of code and that you've just deemed it "not important" for now. ;))
Cool cool. I wondered if that was a one-time deal. Wonder no more.
Sorry man. I only get name/race/edges-flaws. I meant to ask you about that earlier in the week, but must have forgotten to type it out. More later. Must go buy non-pain inducing keyboards. |
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Feb 16 2006, 06:45 AM
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#107
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I'll be putting my players' characters into Jackpoint Beta as they are emailed to me over the next couple of days. The sheer variety of traits should be enough to dig out anything else. To input them, I'll have to turn off all of the limiters, so if there are any bugs associated with doing so, I should find them through this exercise.
Of course, of the six of us, only 3 are remotely addicted to information sharing and constant internet use, so I may not get to add all of them this week...meaning they'll just be great cannon-fodder for JPB2. ;) Also, as much as I dislike sounding like a good little MS minion, the MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 is a freaking dream come true, and at $49.95 - $10 mail in rebate, a total steal. Mmmmmmmmm....(semi)pain-free typing. |
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Feb 16 2006, 06:51 AM
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#108
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
All I get is a couple boxes with name and race. |
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Feb 16 2006, 06:53 AM
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#109
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I have not added edges nor flaws to my character yet.
PS - I got the same sorcery error as detailed above. |
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Feb 16 2006, 07:12 AM
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#110
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
New bug.
To input these "uber" characters I had turned off all three limiters. When I started choosing edges and flaws, I noticed that if you remove anything, it turns Spending back on. |
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Feb 16 2006, 07:43 AM
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#111
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
First off, if I haven't remembered to mention it yet, I think it's totally bitchin' that the program learns, and that I don't have to re-type stuff like new weapons if I want to use them again.
However, I'm beginning to think that if there's one section where it shouldn't learn and save stuff, it's knowledge skills. I don't know about other people's games, but I know that nearly every character that gets made in our games has probably 75% "new" skills; that is, skills that we just make up to fit the character. At this rate, the knowledge skill list is going to be comletely unnavigable before I even get done inputting the characters before starting game. I like that there's a list there to choose from, and you've got tons of great, useful stuff in there. However, if it's possible to "turn off" the learning feature for just one area, that'd be the one to turn off. Suggest adding a "Remove Geas" button under Magic. Along the same lines as the handling box, when Armor is selected under "New Gear" it should have slots for Ballistic and Impact. Currently it only has one box. |
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Feb 16 2006, 12:12 PM
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#112
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
one possible option for Eidolon, as far as coding goes, might be to populate a list box wit those knowledge skills, insted of having them fill-text (what i'm assuming they're doing, i havent had a chance to properly install it :D ) That way, if someone wants to reuse an old knowledge skill, they can go to a secondary drop down, while keeping the main input clean.
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Feb 16 2006, 04:43 PM
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#113
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
you know you can change the BP amount though right? if not, it's at the bottom of the edges and flaws page.
my years of experience with SR were spent in alabama playing with my friends...we all started role-playing together when none of us knew how, and we never thought of giving a 'starting' character karma to use, just more BPs if we wanted them to be stronger. (and if it's in the rules that you can use karma, we never noticed) that's something new to me now that i'm out in the world. are there exact rules on how this works? do you buy stuff at the char. gen. rates, or at normal rates? you said something about spending the karma only after BPs are spent? the only reason i didn't include this feature is that i don't know the details.
ok, that's what i guessed since that was what i found in the .zip file i put up for download. poop! how did i ever overwrite the new one i made with the old one?!? |
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Feb 16 2006, 04:58 PM
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#114
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
noted.
unless i get any objections, then i'll consider this.
oh ya! noted.
noted. thanks again eidolon! |
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Feb 16 2006, 05:02 PM
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#115
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
i will consider a second drop-down for all 'house' knowledge skills if it comes to that. thx! |
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Feb 17 2006, 03:18 AM
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#116
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
That's not a bad idea, but all it really does is make a separate list of skills that are (in my experience) typically used once, for one character. Perhaps a better solution would simply be to have the program, after you hit "Okay" after putting in a knowledge skill, just ask you if you want it saved to the list. That way, if it's a skill you'd like to use later, it's on the list, but if it's too specific you can leave it off.
Yeah, saw it. However, more build points isn't really what I mean by non-standard starting characters. What I'm talking about is a 120 BP character with some Karma to spend, which ties into the following:
Okay. Basically, say I've got 120 BPs and 25 Karma. I'll first generate a "starting" character, using the 120 BPs. Then, once that's done, I'll spend the Karma for things like raising attributes, raising skills, buying new skills, initiating, bonding foci, etc. The rules for spending Karma start on page 242, SR3. It's pretty straightforward. There's a table on page 245, SR3 that shows the cost of raising things. For example, I have a character with: Quickness: 6 Pistols (a Quickness skill): 3 and I want to raise the character's Pistols skill to a 4. Since raising an active skill (up to the linked Attribute's rating) cost 1.5 Karma, going from a 3 to a four will cost 4 (the desired rating) x 1.5 = 6 so it costs 6 Karma to raise his Pistols skill from a 3 to a 4. And so on. Basically, I foresee the program asking at the beginning if you intend to have any Karma at generation. If you select no, then it keeps the options greyed out (or invisible). If you select yes, then it asks you how much, and then keeps it greyed out until you've finished spending all of your build points. Also, just as far as general methodology, when we build characters with Karma and extra (non-chargen money) it goes like this: - Build the basic character with your beginning BPs. This includes spending all of your BPs. - Spend Karma to improve the character. - Money purchased with BPs is used to purchase items using the character generation rules (in other words, availability and rating limits apply, but street index does not) - Money given as "extra" is spent using the post-generation rules (no limits on what can be purchased, but street index applies). Also, there is some magical gear that requires a Karma expenditure. This is typically included in the rules for each specific piece of gear that requires it. (Also, after chargen, all foci and talismans are bonded using Karma.) It sounds a lot more complicated than it is, really. :) |
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Feb 17 2006, 01:42 PM
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#117
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
another good solution...i'll keep that in mind as well.
that sounds about how i thought it might work - so about about this: the character updater will have a place to adjust the amount of :nuyen: you have on each credstick, and the amount of karma you have. the idea behind this is that you create a character and then go on a run where you gain/spend :nuyen: and karma. you then open the updater, add-in/subtract how much :nuyen: and karma you've got, and then you can spend it or not. so let's say that your GM says you can create a character with 120 BPs, 20 karma and 20,000 :nuyen: is there any reason you can't spend the 120 build points and all your starting :nuyen: and then save and print the character and go straight into the character updater where you add your 20 karma and 20,000 :nuyen: , and then spend it as normal? i'm not trying to be lazy - i just want this system to be a simple as possible. and if i'm already putting karma/ :nuyen: spending capability into the updater, then i don't see any reason to repeat myself in the creator... please, everyone, think about this to see if you can think of any holes in this system. i want people to be able to create characters using extra karma and :nuyen: , i just don't want to clutter things up if i don't have to. and thanks again to all for your thorough testing and all of the great enhancement suggestions!! your hard work and honesty is deeply appreciated! |
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Feb 17 2006, 02:54 PM
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#118
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
While I haven't had the opportunity to do an in-depth test for you, I can sincerely say that your efforts are very appreciated as well. |
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Feb 17 2006, 07:37 PM
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#119
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
thanks Jray!
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Feb 18 2006, 01:56 AM
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#120
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Actually, I had forgotten there was a separate updater on the way. :embarassed:
That's perfect. All of the Karma and extra moolah spending will go on in it. Ignore me on that one. :) |
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Feb 18 2006, 03:11 AM
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#121
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
i am glad you asked though - 'cus creating characters that way is very popular. and i need to know about this stuff so that i can make sure it's covered. |
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Feb 18 2006, 03:13 AM
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#122
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
i'm going to try and make a push this weekend to get as much done as i can. i also need to run through some trainings for my new job this weekend - but i should be able to get a lot done on Jackpoint.
if anyone runs into any problems or thinks of any improvements, just keep me updated! |
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Feb 18 2006, 04:31 AM
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#123
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Ran into some trouble getting character info from 4 out of five of my players, so I probably won't get to actually try to use JP during game this weekend. :(
I plan on taking their sheets (or at least copies) this time so I can input them for next week. I'm anxious to try out the GM console real-time. I probably won't be doing much more testing until possibly Sunday (or Monday), due to having to prep and run game for Saturday (and possibly Sunday...). I'll try to keep an eye on the thread at some point though. I expect to get back into testing next week (when I'm adding their characters). Thanks again for all the work you're putting into this. |
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Feb 18 2006, 05:01 PM
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#124
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 |
if you look at SR3.57, column 1 bottom half of the page you'll see a listing of "...limitations [that] also apply in choosing skills:". Point #2 is: "No character can have a starting rating higher than 6 in any base skill (7 for specializations)" that is why i made it so that when you click on the button "New Skill/Specialization" and you choose specialization, the rating box only goes to 1. but, i did not make it so that the base rating goes down by one, which i am fixing right now. |
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Feb 18 2006, 05:09 PM
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#125
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the rating shouldn't be 1, though, it should be (base rating +1).
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