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 Sniper rifle power to high vs hvy machine gun |
 Feb 2 2006, 04:08 AM
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#76
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222  |
The charging handle beats the shit out of the recruit for being left-handed so the sergeants don't have to. A weapon that truly embraces the Russian military training method.
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Feb 2 2006, 04:21 AM
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#77
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
And British too, apparently. :)
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Feb 2 2006, 04:43 AM
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#78
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Whoops. His bad for not realizing that his post to a thread containing a discussion on a public forum, regarding a subject that people have varying views on, in which the merits of things being discussed as they affect the game are entirely subjective, must conform to your standards in order to be relevant and worth posting. I'm sure he'll never let it happen again. |
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Feb 2 2006, 04:58 AM
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#79
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Go read the sticky on thread crapping, go reread his post, and then come back here and defend it to me again. We were having a conversation (on-topic) about firearms in Shadowrun, and he poked his head in and said "LOL OMG NO ONE CARES, SHUT UP!" How is that, y'know, in any way a meaningfull addition to a conversation, a positive influence on a thread, or anything at all besides thread crapping? Regardless -- your post to me (and now my post to you) aren't on-topic. If you really feel a need to continue defending him from my horrible wrath (or whatever), you can do it in PMs. Raygun: Top notch new stuff (well, duh). I've got an ork that just might need a Groza. Though I've yet to use all your rules (most folks like to keep it a little simpler, especially for already-slow online play), I can just flip through your pages and pages of guns and be happy. I recently was googling Kel Tec Sub 2k's, just trying to find reviews and opinions and whatnot (thinking of snagging one, to use my G19 mags) -- and ended up hitting your page in my search, and then forgetting what I was doing entirely (IE, "real world" stuff). I do like the old music better, though. ;) |
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Feb 2 2006, 05:22 AM
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#80
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 28-July 03 From: Omaha, NE, USA Member No.: 5,103 |
agreed the 14S is probably more accurate.
Mounting a .50 on a drone (heh) By the time the rigger has round 4 headed down range towards the intended target on the ground, his drone's gun sight will be staring at the babe on the balcony 6 floors up above in that high rise appartment building next door. In WW II and during the Congo wars various military units tried mounting the .50BMG system on a jeep, 1/4 ton ammo carrier, 1/2 ton pickup, 3/4ton pick up, and other mobile platforms. To date, nothing short of a 3/4 ton truck with 1000 lbs worth of sandbags & a heavily reinforced bed/frame and triple shocks has been capable of sustaining anything more than a 3 round burst without tipping over. The latest version uses fully recoil supressed mounts on a HMMV. When shooting to forward or to either side, it still lifts the muzzle side wheels off the ground on a 10 round burst. As to the Barrett & related sniper rifles.... I've used the Barrett. Any soldier capable of using the title SNIPER would not be caught dead using off the shelf, Munitions Depot fresh ammo. I always sat down with my armorer and we hand loaded every round used. Calibrated the casings, proofed the primers (sampled the block to test flash & burn rate, sensitivity, & moisture absorbtion rate, normally 10 out of a 100 unit block), same for the powder. Weighed, balanced, & trimmed every bullet used. All of this did little if anything for increasing the round's damage ability, but it sure has hell improved the accuracy. round for round, when fired from a "bolted down" stationary test bed barrel with a 1500m zero, "off the shelf" depot ammo was good for a 1m grouping in a 3knot wind, while our "hand loads" consistently made 23mm groupings, using 10 & 20 rd groups. |
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Feb 2 2006, 06:31 AM
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#81
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Sans mount, an M2E2 generates all of @ 37 fpe of recoil energy per shot with M33 ball. Full auto @ 500 rpm isn't going to lift a friggin' HMMV off its wheels, nor would they mount M2s on HMMVs if that were the case, considering that they have to be able to move and shoot at the same time. Aside from that, if what you're saying were true, an M2 going full auto would make pretty short work of the 44-pound M3 tripod the thing is normally attached to for static ground emplacements. And disregarding the fact that mounting M2s on Jeeps during WWII was somewhat common practice, these guys must have a hell of a time.
23mm @ 1500m? Wow. Your 10-20 round handload groups beat the world record for 50-cal heavy benchrest 5-shot group (1,000 yards) by 1.6947" (43mm). You'd better get involved in the FCSA. Make some money selling ammo. |
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Feb 2 2006, 05:37 PM
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#82
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
Awesome. |
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Feb 2 2006, 06:11 PM
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#83
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 18-January 04 From: bethlehem, pennsylvania. not israel. we're not busy bulldozing any palestinian homesteads here. yet. Member No.: 5,989 |
No, my "mistake" is in thinking a *game* should have playability is its prime directive. |
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Feb 2 2006, 06:16 PM
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#84
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Yeah. That's a pretty big mistake. |
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Feb 2 2006, 06:17 PM
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#85
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 18-January 04 From: bethlehem, pennsylvania. not israel. we're not busy bulldozing any palestinian homesteads here. yet. Member No.: 5,989 |
Nice try, but with a little between the lines it more closely reads, "As a game, its designed to do what it needs to do: Fast, efficent, and enough balance and reality to make it flow and play efficently. All these ridiculous rules and clarifications only serve to make you look like the 14yo kid at the gun counter at Walmart regailing the elderly sales person with stories of your Vietnam Marine father's custom whathaveyou shooting this-by-that, and look, you know obscure desginations for cartridges! W00t." Some people tend to focus to the point of detriment on the inconsequential, and in turn then have to fill a board clogged with a glut of posts explaining an already oft complex game with meaningless drivel which in turn only feeds the hordes of barely literate D&D D20 players more nonsense with regards to useless power-up like toys in lieu of them focussing on things like play, plot, and story. But, if you prefer, "LOL OMG NO 1 CARES, SHUT UP!" Your interpretation. Suffice to say, if knowledge is power; the lot is barely dangerous 'round these parts. |
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Feb 2 2006, 06:23 PM
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#86
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
So you have a problem with people discussing house rules for games on discussiong forums dedicated to said games, and you think nobody should ever be allowed to play any game anywhere in a manner which you do not personally approve of. Point taken. Could you now go troll somewhere else?
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Feb 2 2006, 06:28 PM
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#87
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
So then the quad 50 on a 3/4 ton truck fo AA duty is all in my head? Quad 50 trailer Didnt think so. *Edit* Erh, not a 3/4. One of those tri axel big haulers. 5ton? 2.5 ton? This post has been edited by Lindt: Feb 2 2006, 06:33 PM |
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Feb 2 2006, 07:06 PM
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#88
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Okay. My mistake. With a little "read between the lines," as you put it, your inane and ignorant post becomes more personally offensive and insulting, simply by virtue of the fact anyone who knows more than you do about guns is likened to a hyperactive 14 year old. Nice work. I'm sorry if you play a game where gunplay is a major draw, and have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sorry the game developers are much like you in that respect. However, that doesn't mean the rest of us necessarily have to play in your simple, streamlined, basic, dirt-stupid, little world. Some of us know a little more about firearms, and one of us (Raygun) has taken a lot of time and a lot of effort (more than some of SR's designers, no doubt) to write up a comprehensive set of rules to replace (not just augment, but in some places wholly replace) the simple, streamlined, basic, dirt-stupid set in the main rulebook. No one's making you use them. Is this somehow negatively impacting your game? Do you have any sort of proof (aside from your own ignorant and obviously slanted opinion) that this somehow "takes away" from "play, plot, and story?" I can show you detail-oriented RP that'll make your fucking head spin, son. The addition of realistic gear and rules adds to, not detracts from, the ability to tell a good story -- because the players don't have to work so damned hard to believe what's happening. It's harder for some of us to turn our brains off so that it makes perfect sense that my street sammie can swap ammo between an Ares HVAR (6M damage) and an AK 97 (8M damage) just fine, but not between that AK97 (assault rifle) and it's folding stock/carbine version (but otherwise mechanically the same) SMG. You know why that's harder for me to believe? Because I understand a little fucking something about how guns work, and I'm pretty sure tacking a folding stock onto a gun doesn't make it require a whole different active skill (and ammunition class), and because I also understand that just because an AK and an M-16 are both kinda sorta called assault rifles doesn't mean they fire the same ammo. So maybe, just maybe, I use Raygun's rules instead. Not to "clutter up" the game, but to keep me from having to smack my head against a wall 'till I'm concussed enough to accept the canon rules. What's more, no one's making you read this thread. So go about your business, stop trolling, and be aware that you're not adding a damned thing to the conversation by popping your fool head in and telling us that what we're talking about doesn't matter. Here's a news flash -- nothing any motherfucker on Dumpshock says matters. We're all sitting here talking about a role playing game. Your pointless drivel is no more or less important than our pointless drivel, in the great, global, scheme of things. None of us are curing cancer by posting here, none of us are feeding sick children by creating new threads, none of us are bringing about global peace and harmony by taking advantage of clickable smilies. That means everything everyone says on here is "meaningless drivel" that serves no real purpose. So go tell everyone else, on every other thread, they need to stop talking, too. And while you're at it, follow your own fucking advice. Read the sticky on thread crapping, while you're at it. You'll realize that popping onto a thread like this and doing nothing but telling people what they're saying is worthless and inconsequential is a textbook example of that, and that the only likely thing keeping you from Admin attention is the fact the fucking "report" button doesn't work. So go back to whatever it is you do when you're not trolling. You're disrupting this otherwise productive and informative thread. Thanks. |
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Feb 2 2006, 11:33 PM
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#89
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
I've said it before. I'll say it again.
Qfen (or anyone else playing antagonist): Stop antagonizing Critias. You've said your piece, and some people have agreed and some haven't. Critias: If you're tired of being antagonized (as you have implied in other threads), I suggest you try posting in a less abrasive style. I dunno what it is, but something about the way you post makes people want to antagonize you. Now for the love of christ, play nice, everyone. |
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Feb 2 2006, 11:52 PM
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#90
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
So, by that logic, Big Eyes Small Mouth should have totally beaten out Dungeons and Dragons. |
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Feb 3 2006, 04:17 AM
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#91
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
not that Raygun really needs any backup on this, but i've been in a HMMWV with an M2 mounted, firing a hell of a lot more than 10-round bursts. we didn't tip. moreover, i don't think the mounting is nearly strong enough to tip one over--it'd break first. hey, gfen? LOL OMG NO 1 CARES, SHUT UP! |
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Feb 3 2006, 04:20 AM
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#92
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Through here (sans the snark, of course), I would have seen your point at least well enough to acknowledge it.
Here's where you start to lose any sort of credibility that you had. Knowledge isn't something to be belittled, regardless of whether you choose to use it.
And here's where you completely fall apart. Guess what? I would wager that quite a few DSers play D&D D20. And yes, some of us most likely do enjoy debating points of that game, as much as we like debating points of this one. The fact that you're implying that all posts on the subject of D&D are "nonsense about toys and powerups" destroys any base for making an argument that you had, due to the fact that it clearly shows that you know fuck-all about what commonly gets discussed at the D&D forums (the most common theme as of my last venture over being alignment; feel free to try and come hold your own with some of us over there). Your lack of ability to combine intricate detail with plot and story has been covered just fine by Critias. Then, you finish it off by insulting everyone on the forums. Nice. [cue: Trideo announcer] So after last quarter, the score stands solidly at Critias 1, qfen 0, and it doesn't look like the next half of the game is going to be all that exciting. Yup, fans are already leaving the stands. [/cue] Public apology to Critias: That shall be the last time I infer too deeply into a post. I'm pretty sure your initial instinct beat the living piss out of mine...this time. ;) |
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Feb 3 2006, 05:06 AM
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#93
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 28-July 03 From: Omaha, NE, USA Member No.: 5,103 |
The trailer you're showing actually comes from a deuce & a half engineering truck. With the modifications made to it for the Q50, the finished product weighs in about the same as a 1 ton truck. My friends & relatives who've used these against ground targets in Vietnam say "HEAVY sand bagging was required to form a fixed emplacement & required daily restacking of the sandbags to keep it in place. The M113 APC mounted version was filmed moving the vehicle sideways when fired to the side. The film I'm referring to was from NBC News. It aired as part of their coverage ot the '68 Tet Offensive. I watched it 2 years ago as part of a video journalism class. The audio sucks, because of poor storage of the media, but I think it may be available on interlibrary loan. I'll track down the professor I had & see about getting the relavent ID stuff to order it or even look it up online. |
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Feb 3 2006, 06:37 AM
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#94
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
An M2 on an M3 tripod shrugging off a few sandbags around the cleats after a thousand rounds is one thing. Flipping a Jeep after 3 rounds is something else entirely. If you'd like to see video of an M2 on an M3 tripod firing without any sandbagging whatsoever, here you go. Not exactly flipping 120-ish pounds of gun and tripod onto the shooter's head, is it?
Was the subject "drawing the wrong conclusion"? I'd really love to see that video. Incidentally, here's a video of a GAU-19/A (that's a .50 BMG gatling gun) mounted on an HMMV firing at a bit more than twice the rate of an M2 (roughly 1,300 rpm; Average Peak Recoil: 500 Pounds (2.2 kN)). While it appears to set the HMMV back on its shocks an inch or so, there aren't any wheels coming off the ground, even after the 50th round. |
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Feb 3 2006, 06:49 AM
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#95
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
That's fucking amazing. :shock: |
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Feb 3 2006, 07:14 AM
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#96
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
None needed. I guess it's a good thing not everyone's as cynical as me (even if it means they're wrong when I'm not), overall. |
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Feb 3 2006, 07:21 AM
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#97
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
:rotfl: Okay, weapons guys, question: What is the name of that high-speed minigun that they mount in helicopter doors and (I believe it's the same one) on naval vessels? I saw a clip from CNN (or one of those "news" networks) in which the reporter was suddenly drowned out (he was riding right next to the door gunner) by this "rrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiipppppppp" sound, and the camera man turned just in time to catch a literally solid looking stream of brass pouring out of the thing. Must...find...video...and watch...over and over..... (I suppose the SR equivalent would have to have the HV option, but somehow ignore the lame-o damage adjustment.) |
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Feb 3 2006, 07:34 AM
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#98
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Huh. That Gau-19/A seems almost... troll portable?
As for a chopper door gun, probably a M-134 minigun? -karma |
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Feb 3 2006, 07:38 AM
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#99
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
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Feb 3 2006, 07:40 AM
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#100
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Make that "troll built with two things going for him: strength and the heavy weapons skill, fitted out with a twin-boom gyro system mounted with two Gau-19/As", and you've got a scary, scary adversary. ;)
Thanks guys. That's the one. I had actually just thought to do a wiki pull on "minigun", and hit "enter" and clicked back onto DS while it loaded..and BAM. You guys are sneaky. |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 12th April 2022 - 03:32 PM |
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