Half of texas?, how did mexico do it? Options

[ChuckRozool]

Ok i recently got back into running the shadows again, we are four sessions into our, uh, campaign(?).
Now because of this i was looking over the history again just for the heck of it, when i come to the part about mexico (aztlan) taking half of texas. So i'm like, 'what the hell is that all about? How is that even possible?'. Now maybe it's because i'm a texan, so naturally i am bias, but come on.
Does anyone have some knowledge perhaps i didn't see...

I'm mean given the history of texas and several other factors this is kinda hard to belive.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Stupid politicians and blood spirits.

[hyzmarca]

Quite a bit of military power was lost when the USA broke up. While Texas would have almost certainly been able to reapproperiate the some equipment for their own miliary the overall reduction in military effectiveness would have be staggering. Certainly, Mexico could beat Texas in a traditional ground war. Remember the Alamo. Aztlan's only problem would be guerrilla resistance and by then the populace would have been so apathetic as to not care if Hitler's Reanimated Head made their laws.

[Squinky]

Texans are some pretty scary folk....I would imagine a large quantity of "minute-men" type groups because of the large quanity of civilian guns around...

[ChuckRozool]

[JongWK]

"Welcome to the Aztlan-Texas shooting war. On the Aztlaner corner, a triple-A megacorp called Aztechnology. On Texas' corner... uh... well..."

Looks like a Don King fight, doesn't it? ;)

[hyzmarca]

Aztlan was part of the NAN because they classified Hispanics as Native Americans (which is technically accurate). If the USA decided to use the same standards it is possible that every tejano was rounded up and put into a death camp, greatly reducing any loyalty they they'd have toward Texas. Tenjanos fighting for Texas would be like Jews fighting for Nazi Germany.

[Ancient History]

Texas was in one of it's rather ill-considered independant phases at the moment, with apathetic (if not openly hostile) NAN neighbors, and Aztlaner forces were backed with magic. By the time the Lone Star did get help from the CAS, they'd already lost sizable chunks of territory, and the territory was probably ceded to Aztlan in ensuing peace talks.

It's not that Texans didn't fight - but they were facing a modern military force with the latest arms and magical support, and they didn't have the resources to regain the lost land.

[TheNarrator]

Hispanics are a major demographic in the U.S.... and growing fast. One in seven Americans is Hispanic. It's pretty much impossible that Hispanics could have been put in the camps... it would have increased the size of the job fifteen fold.

Native Americans? Not that numerous. 1% of the population, give or take.

Hispanics? 14.1% as of 2004.

Of course, the entire notion behind the US-NAN war is pretty preposterous. People would never have stood for a return to take-the-Indian's-land policies or large-scale internment camps. We're hardly a perfect people here in the United States, but we don't generally start reoppressing people we've ceased oppressing. The public outcry would make people's complaints over Guantanamo Bay seem like a quiet whisper. But the balkanization of all the major world powers is part of the Shadowrun flavor, so I whistle and look the other way as regards the metaplot. But increasing the size of the population being oppressed by a factor of 15 would just be too much to believe.

[ChuckRozool]

I understand that this is FASA/Wizkids/Fan Pros world and they can do what ever they wish... But would you agree that Mexico/Aztlan taking 1/2 of Texas is a pretty impossible feat. I think alot of Texans would die before they let their state be taken by any foreign goverment and the cost to take texas or most US states would be too costly to try.

[brennanhawkwood]

I do not remember if it is something we found in one of the Shadowrun game books/novels or something a GM made up, but I remember our gaming group getting a kick out of the tale of the Texan's fierce delaying campaign as they desperately held off the Aztlan forces headed for San Antonio...the purpose of course being to allow the Texans to cart off the Alamo (eventually reassembling it elsewhere) rather than allowing it to fall into Aztlan hands. A little silly an idea, but given a couple of Texans I've known I could see them trying it.

[hyzmarca]

[Edward]

Given Aztechnologys public face after Mexico became Azatlan I expect Hispanics started to like it a hole lot more. Finest public relations department in history and all that.

Mf I understand the timing right they took this land just after the war that formed the CAS. The Texans are just coming out of a war they no longer have the military mite of a super power defending them and a major megacorp as an enemy, iff the megacorp really wanted the land it was going to win.

Edward

[SL James]

[John Campbell]

I think I may have to file Aztlan whuppin' Texas alongside CFS in "bits of SR history that might not be totally plausible but I approve of just because it's so funny watching partisans of the state in question get their panties in a wad about it".

[ChuckRozool]

[Deamon_Knight]

**sigh**

Didn't you guys Read Harlequinns back?

This is where it happened, chummers. This is where they broke the spirit, pardon the pun, of the good ol U.S of A. This is where they danced the Big One, the Great Ghost Dance.

The only explanation for beating the USA is gross, preposterous, atomic sized, supermagic. Magic powerful enough to beat the US armed forces and blunts Americas very will. Magic that is just shy of divine intervention,melts the brains of an untold number of dancers, and nearly ends the world.

And even after that, Texas still secedes and fights Aztlan to a stalemate by itself.

In a game, I can buy that.

[mfb]

i don't tend to think of it (when i think of it) as Texas losing half the state territory to Aztlan. i view it as Texas holding off a modern national army by itself. Texas had no support from the CAS military at all, and yet they kicked Aztlan in the teeth so hard, Aztlan ended up trying to call in the NAN for help. when the NAN refused, Aztlan's assault stalled.

[nick012000]

[Critias]

The trick to accepting what happened with Texas is to take a "glass half full" view of what happened. It really is. Rather than losing half of Texas, Texans managed to keep half of it, fighting to a standstill a foreign national power, without backup.

I mean, it's like (purposefully, I'm sure) the Alamo, or maybe even Thermopylae. Do you remember it as "that place all those losers died," or "where a horribly outnumbered force held out for a good, long, time against an overwhelming foe."

[fistandantilus4....]

good point. Texas did withdraw from the CAS for a time becuase the CAS wouldn't help them fight for their lost territory, then rejoined when they couldn't do it on their own. And they're still working at it. Azziewatch, Cavlier Arms, and the general attitude of most CAS-ers to Aztlan (check out YOTC) are good examples of the continuing effort against Aztlan.

And rememeber, Aztechnology does the 'finest public relations in history' Edward, at least, according to Corporate Download.

[Deamon_Knight]

[ChuckRozool]

All very good points. I suppose with all this added information it would be plausible.

I guess the thing that really miffed me was the thought of Aztlan holding half of my beloved town of Austin. She doesn't deserve a fate like that even if it's a alernate reality. BUT, i guess if you're gonna stop an invading force in texas the capitol (at the time) would be the place to do it.

I'm sure my home town of Laredo is just a bunch of burned out buildings. I would think the border towns would take the brunt of an assault, especially Laredo considering I-35 starts/ends there. Straight, more or less, line to San Antonio and Austin.

[hyzmarca]

[Grinder]